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How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 1:36 am

Forty6and2
Posts: 4
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Greetings!

My first post here, so no flaming, please :)

Anyway... Just got into amsterdam today and quickly went to the RLD at night. Just got back a few hours ago and I don't know how to exactly negotiate. I've read a lot of trip reports on here and people are saying they get bj, nude, and multiple fuck positions. All for 50 euro...

When I went up to talk to the girls, they said 50 for suck or fuck. I replied with, 50 for both? And every girl looked disrespected and shut the door.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 3:21 am

george47 Power Kat
Posts: 1074
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50 Euros suck AND fuck is still considered the norm though in reality it's becoming outdated. My advice is to read the girls section and find a recommended girl and go for at least 100 for 30 mins. It's far more enjoyable. Even if you get everything offered for 50 how much fun is it to get undressed, get sucked, fuck in multiple positions and get dressed in 15-20 mins? Before you know it you're out the door and it feels like it never happened.
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 10:03 am

Forty6and2
Posts: 4
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Thanks for the reply!! I really appreciate it. I will definitely look into that.

I ended up fucking a girl last night before I wrote that. She said 50 for suck and fuck, so I agreed and went in. She was giving be a cbj for a few minutes and then said it was 50 more to fuck. I agreed. We started missionary and she said it would be another 50 for a different position. At this point, I realized I was probably getting hustled, so I respectfully declined and just finished in missionary.

I saw this forum afterwards and read everyone getting a bj and fuck for just 50, and realized that she probably knew it was my first time in amsterdam because I didn't negotiate at all at the window. :(
She was soooooo hot though, so whatever. :) hAha
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 10:30 am

french7034
Posts: 126
Location: Paris
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I think it works differently for everyone - you have to feel comfortable.
I have always tended to have exactly what I want in mind, walk up confidently and say it, just as when you walk into a bar / shop or whatever.
So, choose one of the girls who wont charge you silly amounts for basics (check the girls section before you next head out) and then go up and say "Suck and fuck?" - they reply "€50". Say yes but make sure you say "fully naked" or whatever else you want. I tend to reconfirm when I get inside if they haven't taken their top off by the time I have reached for my cash... I always keep my jeans (or shoes believe it or not) close by with a selection of notes in different pockets/in each shoe under the lining (50s and 20s), just so I don't lose the vibe getting up and sifting through my cash! That way she isn't going to look at your wallet with your €500 in and think it's a chance to write herself a blank cheque! It's also useful when you negotiate €20 extra for something and you don't want them to see you're being a tight arse with wads of cash!! The other thing - don't be afraid to walk away. If a girl is saying give me €100 for this and you get the feeling you're being screw over, just say "thanks very much" and get up to leave. 9 time sout of 10 they have said to me "ok, make it €50/€30" or whatever).
Personally I find that the stunners tend to be the ones who will screw you over. Stick to the device and you'll find the right girls.

Enjoy - I'll be there in 6 days for a proper mongering session :)

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Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 11:12 am

Forty6and2
Posts: 4
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Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, after my first session, I went around to find another girl and I had no problem walking away if the vibe wasn't right. It mostly ended with them closing the door before I said no thanks though haha.
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 7:08 pm

BlutoBlutarsky Admin
Posts: 1961
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€50 sex (or €35 depending on where you are) is still alive and well. The only reason it seems "outdated" in Amsterdam is because of idiot tourists overpaying. Full stop. These dumb bastards have ruined it for the rest of us. I have little reason to go to De Wallen very often these days. With the crowds and the poor service levels, it usually isn't worth the trip for me any longer (and I live 5km away.) For example, nowhere else in the Netherlands will you consistently have to negotiate for nonsense like topless when you've already agreed on a price for sex.

To OP - if you came to Amsterdam primarily for sex, consider Den Haag, Alkmaar, maybe Leeuwarden (if you're up for a longer trip)... basically anywhere but Amsterdam. Things used to be better here. Sorry for the shitty experiences you've had thus far.

I've written detailed advice on this subject before but can't seem to find it (try the search for more in-depth discussions of this same topic, of which there are many...) To summarise, in Amsterdam you have to negotiate specifically for every damn fucking thing you want to do. Want to touch the girl? Have to ask that up front. Want to do doggy style? Ask before paying her, otherwise she may well try to charge you extra for switching positions during the session. Breast man? Better confirm she'll be topless (no, you can't assume she will be just because she's already agreed to sex; this is Amsterdam!) In the end, I just got tired of this shit. The business practices of the typical hooker in De Wallen are something analogous to a restaurant charging extra for using a fork, yet an additional fee for the spoon, double for the knife, and at least €20 per napkin.

Edit: yes, I am in a slightly shitty mood at the moment, my friends, but it doesn't make the above comments any less valid, I think. All just my opinions, of course, and don't necessarily represent the official views of ignatzmice.... lol. Hmmm... maybe I should hire an official or two to sort this out... :-)

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Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 7:34 pm

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1538
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It is pretty ridiculous the way a lot of these girls work. Seems very short sighted as well. Yeah, you can fleece some tourist out of a couple hundred Euro, but he probably won't come back because most tourists only do it once or twice just out of curiosity. Hobbyists who actually know what they're doing will avoid you like the plague and give you bad reviews so other hobbyists will ignore you too. I gotta think these girls would make a lot more money overall if they offered good service instead of trying to jerk you around all the time.

That said, there are definitely still some very good girls in De Wallen, in my opinion. Max, for example, has consistently given me very good service, never rushed me, typically if I give her € 100, I'm in there for damn near an hour, and has never charged me extra to do different things, even on things that most girls charge extra for (like anal). I definitely wouldn't say De Wallen is a complete waste of time, but it does take some work sifting through the bullshit. This site is an absolute godsend for helping me find girls that are worth my time.
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 7:47 pm

BlutoBlutarsky Admin
Posts: 1961
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grimnul wrote:
I gotta think these girls would make a lot more money overall if they offered good service instead of trying to jerk you around all the time.

I've always thought exactly the same thing. Generally speaking, quality providers do make more money, I think. I mean, certainly Agnieszka is consistently busier than her two neighbours on OZA (and I don't even know who works there now, and it doesn't matter; I'm still right.) The few good providers I know are much more difficult to find available than the terrible ones. I suppose some girls just don't want to provide a decent service under any circumstances.

grimnul wrote:
That said, there are definitely still some very good girls in De Wallen, in my opinion. Max, for example, has consistently given me very good service, never rushed me, typically if I give her € 100, I'm in there for damn near an hour, and has never charged me extra to do different things, even on things that most girls charge extra for (like anal). I definitely wouldn't say De Wallen is a complete waste of time, but it does take some work sifting through the bullshit.

You are right. The problem I have now is I work like a dog during the week, can never manage to go in the evenings (too tired) and, on the weekends, the place is a total shit show, I can never find the girls I want available and it's a huge hassle to begin with cycling there, parking my bike on OZA, dodging the endless groups of oblivious tourists who walk in front of my bike without looking or just generally make it impossible to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time... and often, after all this, I can't even find a decent girl (it's a short list for me).... great. So that's why I don't go anymore.

grimnul wrote:
This site is an absolute godsend for helping me find girls that are worth my time.

And let me just reassure everyone that it's not going anywhere. Despite my loss of interest in certain aspects of the discussions (I still monger of course, just not in Amsterdam, which has always been the focus here), the site will remain alive probably for as long as I do. :-) It basically costs me nothing to run (modern cloud hosting is dirt cheap) and I'm glad people still find it useful!

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A friend of mine has a trophy wife, but apparently it wasn't first place. --Steven Wright
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 8:35 pm

Carice Liefde Power Kat
Posts: 2245
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Very interesting discussions here.

I would say that the service has lost of his quality since 2012/3. Late in 2009, there were more stunners and much more good/excellent providers who, for the most, have now quit the city, and maybe (probably for a few), still doing this in other cities around the globe. For me there is before 2009 and after 2012.

The fact is that girls on OZA and elsewhere on tiny streets and around De Wallen are still asking for extra money for top off, which is for me a shame, as I don't understand why they want to keep it on. But as I think one minute or two about this attitude, I can see why : the 50€ should include top off systematically, but it's more valuable to have more money for something like this (the guy is sometimes ready to pay more for touching naked breasts, which is what he came for) rather that having less for the same time spent. It encourages hassling, misunderstanding, I understand why guys are so pissed off after that, but the deal is done, and it's too late. No option that leaving the place or having a bad session while the girl has the money.


grimnul wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous the way a lot of these girls work. Seems very short sighted as well. Yeah, you can fleece some tourist out of a couple hundred Euro, but he probably won't come back because most tourists only do it once or twice just out of curiosity.


I think (but that's my opinion) that those girls don't give a fuck about what people might think of their bad services, but do this because they know that they always will have mongerers and tourists walking down the street, on OZA (the main canal and the most known) where they can have the money they want as fast as possible, giving shitty services with no consideration, dong their show at the window, take 100 € at least for an handjob and one minute of CBJ with top on of course, and then just count the money earned in less time that is needed to say.

OZA will always be for the bad providers the place to be for having those tourists in their rooms, opening their doors, shutting them reopening them again surprising people that think it has been very short -which is true- who want to see what the RLD looks like, and certainly lost some cash into not so friendly hands.

Quote:
I gotta think these girls would make a lot more money overall if they offered good service instead of trying to jerk you around all the time.


The more people they have (and it will not be the same who have been scummed obviously) the more they have money. It's not the bad word by mouth that counts, it's how many people are walking between 23.00 pm & 3 am in the morning on OZA (that when the show starts on week-end nights) to get the cash into the wallet. It's not cynical (well, maybe a little bit :-) , it's just how the things are. Maybe within two/three years, 50 € will be for CBJ only as norm, and then 100 € mini for one position and CBJ. And maybe in Molensteeg 50€ mini instead of the 30 € you can have with some girls (many actually).


Last edited by Carice Liefde on 2014-09-26, 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 8:40 pm

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1538
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Yeah, it does get pretty nuts on weekends. I'll usually still go because it's just a 5 minute walk or so from my hotel, though I do imagine on a bike it'd be much more difficult, but I generally prefer weekdays during the day. It does get pretty tough to find decent girls on the weekends for sure. Usually if I do manage to find someone good on a weekend, I go in right away, and stay a couple hours. Hide from the crowds. Yes, I'm the bastard monopolizing Max's afternoons. Sorry.

Glad the site is sticking around. Many more trips in my immediate future, and I'm also thinking of giving Germany a go at some point. I'd be completely lost without this site.

Also, Carice, I get that, but these girls would still be getting tourists if they gave good service by virtue of the fact that tourists generally pick a random girl they think is hot, but they'd also be getting repeat business from mongerers on top of that which these rip off girls don't. It just seems like they limit their potential earnings with their bad attitude.
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 10:12 pm

Carice Liefde Power Kat
Posts: 2245
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grimnul wrote:
It just seems like they limit their potential earnings with their bad attitude.


It doesn't matter as there always (or for a long time) will be tourists who are ready to fuck the hot chick brunette giving bad services they are not aware of, but just think they will not have such a hottie in their bed back home soon.

Why Keira is still working ? Why Sadie is still on OZA 32, middle window ? Why Cristina still in Stoofsteeg ?
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-26, 11:59 pm

Forty6and2
Posts: 4
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Well, had another session tonight and it was the same deal. I said, "50 for suck and fuck with multiple positions?" Girl said ok, you can switch positions if you like. I said ok, and in I went. After the CBj, I asked her to turn around for doggy and she said that would be 50 more. I said no thanks and just finished in her mouth.

I think I'm going to go to Max tomorrow afternoon. After all the great reports, I think I'll pay her a visit..! Good idea?
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-27, 12:45 am

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1538
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Absolutely. Can't go wrong with Max. I'd do at least a € 100 session with her. You'll get your money's worth for sure.
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-27, 7:04 pm

lilji
Posts: 432
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I don't know why, but I seem to be so lucky when it comes to choosing randoms (and I've done it on OZA night shift weekends before). The only mongering experience I've had of being truely ripped off was in Hamburg. The problem with negotiating is that there's no sure fire wayto do it, but I always tend to go up and just say 'hey', if it's replied straight away with a mention of money (eg.50 euro to come in) I just say nah. If they reply saying something like 'hey, how are you/do you want to come inside) I then ask how much. When they say 50 (usually they will say fuck and suck) I say 'is that naked, with positions and touching). If they say yes and I still like them without the glass and red glow then I go in and it's never served me wrong really.

I also try and have a bit of a chat whilst undressing to lighten the air.

You can do all the above and still get ripped off. That's not exclusive to Amsterdam tho. With Amsterdam being the famous RLD, rip off's are more reported and happen a bit more. That being said, I can;t think of another RLD that has the atmosphere and good set up that Amsterdam has. Every other RLD I go to I always think 'fuck I could be in Amsterdam just now'.
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-28, 2:32 am

weasel9x9Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 1866
Location: cheesehead central
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Gentlemen,

You have a valuable tool right in front of you.
Use the informaiton here on the site!
For God's Sake, we spend the time writing this to make it a better experience for everyone.
Use Hookers.nl. Use whatever you like, but show up with a little bit of an idea of what you want, and where to get it.

That said:
I just had this conversation tonight with Bluto and Wim.
I wish everyone could do a lap of the Wallen with BigBen. Some guys just have a skill, chatting up the girls, charming, flirting. He could talk to every girl on the street. I used to bitch at him for moving so slow.
But the girls loved him, and you could see which ones had some spark and wit, and which ones were rather dull. Just by watching.
I don't think he ever took a bad punt.
An artist, not in oil and canvas, but in mongering.

Use the trip reports and the top ten list. YMMV, as always, but if there is someone there that sounds like your style, start with them. Have at least three girls identified on the shift, since Dogs might be in town, and he might Bogart Haley for hours, causing you to waste valuable time!
In person, they may not do it for you, but if you sense a spark, approach the door.
Stand outside, but close. Do not enter unless you have enough history together that no negotiations are needed, or the weather is really shitty.
Ask for what you want:
Standard is-
I want a suck and fuck, everything off, 3 positions. 50 Euros for 15 minutes.
The propper response is "Yes, of course. Come in."
Gauge her response.
The only thing here that should be negotiable are the positions.
Never pay for clothes off. 50 Euro for 15, 100 Euro for 30, 200 Euro for an hour are pretty standard rates.
Suck and fuck are still the norm. Suck OR fuck is a ripoff alarm. Say no thank you politely, and walk on.

Other girls in the street see you too. If you have a little composure, they notice. They deal with jerks all day long. A good girl wants to talk to guys that are serious about a punt, not just looking. If you look and act like you are serious, and you can present them with a crisp, organized offer, you are making their day easier.

If you have no clue, look for girls with distinctive signs or objects in the window. They are making themselves easy to find, usually for repeat customers. Bad girls don't use markers in the window.

If you expect cowgirl, say so. Same with doggie. Or not normal doggie, or upside down blowjobs.
Some girls only do some positions.

Ask about "touching everywhere". The girls will make it clear whats out of bounds--no touching pussy, hair, face, neck, whatever

Ask about extras. If you are smart enough to ask about extras at the door, they are less likely to spring an upsell on you later. And you might learn something interesting in the process--kissing, anal, bondage, outfits, toys...this possibilities are endless.

Be as fucking specific as you possibly can.
For example:
"It's late and I'm a little lazy.
I want a half hour, and I want your best blowjob without a condom. Nice and sloppy. I might not even fuck you, but if I do, I want you doggie.
To which she grins and repies,
"So you want a lot of spit. No problem."
(Some of you know who this is, just by the reply. I chatted up Simona earlier in the day. Great girl!)

Dont offer 100 unless you are sure. You can always extend, but you will have to take a little break to hand over that extra cash.

Above all, be fucking charming. Like BigBen.

Weasel

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Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-28, 4:08 am

george47 Power Kat
Posts: 1074
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50 Euros S+F has been around since 1st Jan 1999 (15 years ago!) and where it remains it must be the only thing in the world that has dodged inflation, unlike the girl's window rent, food bills and general living expenses. To those people who claim 50 is the norm I would like to ask how many years it should stay the norm before the girls are allowed to ask for more without being labelled a rip-off. 1 year? 10 years? 50 years?
In exactly 100 trips I have learnt that getting to know the girl before by chatting at the door is far better than creating a negative vibe from asking loads of questions about services. By all means mention something specific that you may want but going through a list just pisses them off especially if it's just for a measly 50 Euros (they tell me this).
It's true that you will find cheaper places than Amsterdam but it's, well Amsterdam. Just like you will find cheaper places to eat than the centre of Paris.
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-28, 2:40 pm

BlutoBlutarsky Admin
Posts: 1961
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george47 wrote:
To those people who claim 50 is the norm I would like to ask how many years it should stay the norm before the girls are allowed to ask for more without being labelled a rip-off. 1 year? 10 years? 50 years?

George, they can ask for more money today without being labeled a ripoff. I won't pay it but, so long as they're up front about it, no problem. That's how free markets work. I think what most of us object to here is the typical deception involved with girls in De Wallen. You know, where they tell you it's €50 for S+F and then as soon as you pay, everything that was discussed goes out the window and extra fees are involved for everything she'd already agreed to do at the initial price. So it's not just that the price can be higher in De Wallen; it's that the level of honesty is much lower than in other places. The €50 figure is kind of irrelevant with many of these girls. What I mean is, if one is stupid enough to give some of these girls €100 or even €150, one will get the same awful level of service complete with upselling because that's just what they do, regardless of how much of our hard-earned cash was already handed over.

You keep trotting out this straw man argument time and again about how girls are vilified on this site if they dare ask for more than €50. It's really not the case. We object when the girls flat out lie to us and attempt to extract more money through deception. In those cases, it doesn't matter whether the discussion started at €50 or €100; we object to the dishonesty taking place. That's all. That's the reason I'm finished with De Wallen. Simple.

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Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-28, 2:50 pm

ThirstyTraveller
Posts: 409
Location: 72-3 OZA ;)
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Quote:
That's the reason I'm finished with De Wallen


Really Bluto??
So you're not going to do any of your favorites again like Agnieszka, Simona or Elodie (lol) ? ;)

Cheers!

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My favorite babes....Hmm need to find new ones.
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-28, 2:59 pm

BlutoBlutarsky Admin
Posts: 1961
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ThirstyTraveller wrote:
Quote:
That's the reason I'm finished with De Wallen


Really Bluto??
So you're not going to do any of your favorites again like Agnieszka, Simona or Elodie (lol) ? ;)

Cheers!

Yeah, I really can't be bothered to go anymore. Agnieszka is impossible to find available most nights and Simona is not as great as she used to be, to be totally honest. I felt rushed the last few times and, given that I seldom pay less than €100 with her, I've really had enough now. I kind of just hate the whole area at this point. Coworkers invited me to a bar in De Wallen on Friday. I declined, because I hate going there to begin with, hate dealing with the endless crowds of tourists and hate paying stupid prices for beer in some seedy shithole that charges paying customers to use the toilet. It's just not for me anymore.

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A friend of mine has a trophy wife, but apparently it wasn't first place. --Steven Wright
Re: How to Negotiate?
Posted: 2014-09-28, 7:29 pm

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1538
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BlutoBlutarsky wrote:
george47 wrote:
To those people who claim 50 is the norm I would like to ask how many years it should stay the norm before the girls are allowed to ask for more without being labelled a rip-off. 1 year? 10 years? 50 years?

George, they can ask for more money today without being labeled a ripoff. I won't pay it but, so long as they're up front about it, no problem. That's how free markets work. I think what most of us object to here is the typical deception involved with girls in De Wallen. You know, where they tell you it's €50 for S+F and then as soon as you pay, everything that was discussed goes out the window and extra fees are involved for everything she'd already agreed to do at the initial price. So it's not just that the price can be higher in De Wallen; it's that the level of honesty is much lower than in other places. The €50 figure is kind of irrelevant with many of these girls. What I mean is, if one is stupid enough to give some of these girls €100 or even €150, one will get the same awful level of service complete with upselling because that's just what they do, regardless of how much of our hard-earned cash was already handed over.

You keep trotting out this straw man argument time and again about how girls are vilified on this site if they dare ask for more than €50. It's really not the case. We object when the girls flat out lie to us and attempt to extract more money through deception. In those cases, it doesn't matter whether the discussion started at €50 or €100; we object to the dishonesty taking place. That's all. That's the reason I'm finished with De Wallen. Simple.

I agree with this. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more if I was told upfront. I usually start with € 100 sessions anyway, because I don't like quickies. The problem is that sometimes, even at € 100, I'll have a girl try to charge me more money for something that should've been included.

I had a girl on my very first trip, before I knew about this site, take my 100, then turn around and tell me it's another 50 to fuck. I refused, and wound up getting a shitty sort-of blowjob (handjob, really) with her clothes still on. That is simply unacceptable.

Inflation is one thing, if the price goes up, fine, it goes up. Standard of living is a thing, that's fair. Charging extra for basic services, even when the initial price was quite generous to begin with, that's bullshit.
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