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Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-21, 3:59 pm

Frans Hals
Posts: 75
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New book that is getting reviewed these days:

Pornified : How Pornography Is Transforming Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families (
by Pamela Paul

Basically what is being said is that men and boys are viewing material on the internet that is having a profound detrimental effect on their ability to have normal relationships with women thus affecting their own emotional well being.

This interests me, because as a man in my fifties, I have noticed in Internet posts, or met men in person who seem to be particularly interested in things like ejaculating on women's faces or anal sex which have no interest to me at all. On this board there seems to be an undercurrent of interest in having paid sex with women who have been in porn movies.

I rarely see pornography, but on visits to the Dominican Republic I have stayed in hotels that have satellite TV that you can tune to a porn channel called something like Ten Exxtasy. This stuff is terribly, terribly boring--enough to put you off sex for life, I would think. Basically what you see is men with unusually large dicks plunging forever into women with enhanced breasts and shaved pudenda who scream "ecstatically" ad nauseam until the guy finally runs out of steam, pulls out, and wanks off over her face. We then cut to the commercials that tell us how the trick is done--by using some incredibly expensive pill or potion, the porn star (male) has turned his dick into the monster pole that all women crave. Yeah, right.

This stuff is pathetic alright, but maybe if you were young and it was your first exposure to adult sex, you would not realise that.

Is porn really affecting sexual tastes, or is it just destroying aesthetic values?
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-21, 4:36 pm

axxxtw Founder
Posts: 910
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"...plunging forever into women with enhanced breasts and shaved pudenda who scream "ecstatically" ad nauseam until the guy finally runs out of steam, pulls out, and wanks off over her face."

Yeah, so?! Isn't that every mans dream? ;-)

But seriously Frans, we've always been interested in how the connection develops between sex, which is one thing, and porn clown shows, which are something entirely different. An increasing number do indeed confuse the two.

We do agree that porn has had a big influence on peoples desires, perhaps twisted them up; the desire to inflict facials seem to be entirely derived from porn, for example. But this is likely the "computer issue", the fact that porn is readily available on every ones computer, an unprecedented number of people view it today, rather than limited numbers in smelly shops and creepy theaters.

You'll see there is no actual porn material on this site (and you're a sad git if you equate nude with porn, like Google or Flickr do, for example), nor do we even link the site to Casa Rosso and the other porn clown show providers. We express that distinction on the site, on purpose.
People are free, of course, to make their requests and such known here on the MB. (And we do marvel at some of it ;-)

Finally, we are entirely sceptical of any book, which, if what you say describes it's themes, "profound detrimental effect on their ability to have normal relationships with women thus affecting their own emotional well being". This is part of the old anti-sex, anti-porn agenda---dressed up in a new strategy---the authors motives and intentions should be highly suspect.

What Pamela Paul likely needs is a good facial, probably in a gang bang ;-)

Ps: aesthetics values were destroyed long ago by the advent of mass culture (capitalism's expression of aethetic value.

_________________
wash your hands.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-21, 6:26 pm

BoneJockeyPower Kat XXX
Power Kat XXX
Posts: 820
Location: New York, NY USA
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I'm also in my 50's, and I can say that sneaking peeks at Playboy as a young boy definitely influenced my tastes as an adult. I'm still a sucker for black lingerie, black stockings and garters. Old school, I know, but it's what I like. Well, I'm off to JFK to catch KLM 642. See you in the Wallen!!!
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-21, 6:43 pm

Mr.Plug
Posts: 88
Location: Arizona, USA
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As Peter Sellers said in the movie, "Being There" - "I like to watch, Eve", I do like to watch also. Having seen my share of porn movies over the years, I've never understood its tendency to be so entirely the same. Watching a dyed blond bimbo with huge fake tits sucking on a "porn stars" dork for 20 minutes ad nauseum, followed by him ejaculating all over her face is just not my idea of something that is erotic. But this type of scene seems to make up a majority of porn. Its almost as if one guy with one sexual fetish started the whole porn industry years ago, and he dictated what he liked and what should be shown, and it has all grown from there. I think that some of these porn producers must be closet homosexuals because they spend more time showing the guys dork and ass then they do the female body (not to mention the mryiad scenes with 2, 3, or 4 guys with one woman). And its really the beauty of the female body and sexual anotomy that I want to see, not three guys dicks being stuck into one bimbos face. So I agree with you Frans - much of this stuff is non-erotic and unnatural, and yes, I believe that with the availability of it today, young people are probably being influenced by it.

With that said, I hear what you're saying axxxtw, and I wouldn't be surprised if a book like that is not just some propoganda to suppress pornography, like everything else which is being supressed by the religious "red states" psychology in the US these days.

I saw a segment on "60 minutes" the other night that profiled a movement in the US which is teaching and advocating sexual abstinance for teenagers before marriage. They gather a room full of teens in a concert hall in Texas somewhere, with rock bands and light shows creating a charged up atmosphere, and then this preacher type leader gets up on stage and sells the crowd on taking an oath of "no sex until marriage". Reminds me of a cult like brainwashing, and very linked to strong religious beliefs. The kicker to this story is that some 86% of teens who take this "pledge" end up breaking it, and the really scary part is that this movement does NOT advocate the use of condoms because they claim that they are not effective in preventing pregnancy and diseases like HIV. So when Morley Safer asked the logical question, "so, if 86% of teens do not keep their pledge of abstinance, wouldn't it be the correct thing to do to recommend the use of condoms?", this "leader" replied (and I paraphrase), "If it was my own daughter, I would tell her to abstain from sex until she got married. But if she didn't, I would tell her not to use condoms because they do not prevent pregnancy or disease."

I wonder where all of this will lead to.

-- Mr. Plug
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-21, 8:07 pm

MikeDeHavillandSupporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 635
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There was a show on British Radio2 about this today.

There is apparently a problem with guy's expectations being raised somewhat and the guy either won't give up Internet porn and upsets his Girlfreind or would rather watch the porn stuff than shag his Mrs.

Doesen't sound like much of a problem to me, because I suspect i know whatthe Girlfreind looks like :D

When you spend a day atthe FKK with aporn DVD in your face everywhere you look, all I think is "God, will someone put the News channel on, or the football!".

All yuo need, is a good dose of freindly available good looking Gals and it all just fades away....

Oh- and after you pay £50 for the facial, the fetish soon goes.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-22, 1:20 am

greta
Posts: 169
Location: USA
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Fascinating debate. Speaking as a gal (well ok a bit of a slut!) I have a couple of observatons.

I tend to agree that there is a puritanical urge to close down sexual activity and instill shame and guilt on us for sexual pleasure. So i take that relentless societal motivation into account whenever something like this comes up.

On the other hand there is certainly a case to be made that if there is undue emphasis on certain aspects of sexuality that it does contribute to it becoming a norm or a desired activity among those who see it. But you still couldn't make an unpleasant act popular by that way. People have to be drawn towards it in the first place or they will just say "ycch".

This touches on a topic I raised 3 years ago on this board that provoked a lot of comment and some hostility.

I acknowledged that a lot (possibly a majority) of women probably contribute to the amount of interest guys having in going for paid sex because of their own repressed attitudes or lack of interest in keeping things spicy for their guy. Though that raises another issue - namely encouraging women to express their own sexual fantasies within the relationship. (leave that aside for now)

but I asked the quetion iabout whether having RLD experiences with a young attractive hottie wouldn't in turn make having sex with a more regular looking woman seem boring. And therefore make it harder to enjoy a stable relationship. A lot of guys shot that (and me down) - some making derogatory attacks on American women - but that did shed a lot of illumination on the fact that there is a widening gulf between expectation and reality in sexual matters between men and women

The best case made by a guy for why there was nothing wrong with paid sex was that it was like having amazing food that you can't get at home. doiesn't stop you enjoying food at home. but you like the occasional meal out. I guess that works if the food treat doesn't spoil you for home cookin'!

The other thing I want to comment on is AXXXTW's note that:

>the desire to inflict facials seem to be entirely derived from porn

I cannot speak for the desire to inflict - but I am pretty qualified to speak about my desire to RECEIVE facials.

I did NOT develop this as a desire to please guys who might like it. I certainly had barely seen such level of porno when I first developed a taste for facials. It arrived entirely indepentently. In my case it first happened when a guy I was blowing took his cock out for a second and then started cumming prematurely. I LOVED seeing it and feeling it hit my face. I knew nothing about that being a porno fan dream. I genuinely enjoyed it aestheticaly. And I became keen to have more.

Most of my women friends (with whom i've mentioned this topic oh-so casually) are horrified and regard it as an aberration that arose to satisfy guys. (And it's that attitude that must make guys go crazy) And there are several guys i've been with (before kyle) who were grossed out by my desire and thought me perverted.

Bottom line (and this is something that I think/hope would be useful to all guys who are in a hetro-relationship where the sex has gotten mundane) is that it takes a first step by guys to try and encourage women to speak about THEIR sexual fantasies (and most women DO have them) It is truly scary to articualte what you might wnat to do sexually if you fear that you will be ridiculed or treated as a pervert.

But if a guy and a woman are able to have an open dialogue. eg the guys says something like: "honey - as you know I have a lot of sexual fantasies - and I was fascinated to read that apparently women have sexual fantasies too - but that most guys are so insensitive to women's feelings that they inhibit their women from sharing them. I don't want to be like one of those insensitive guys. So I want you to feel safe to share your fantasies with me - and i will respect you for whatever they are - and try and incorporate them into our sex life...."

now that offers a prospective safe harbor for a gal to share (depending upon the preexisting honesty and trust in the relationship obviously)

If kyle hadn't taken that attitude with me - offering me a safe harbor - I would never have dared to admit my fetish for being coevred in cum. Or my desire to occasionally be a super-slut and be done by other guys (I'm not a slut every day you know!)

now we have the greatest sex imaginible coz my fetishes happened to mesh with HIS desire to do me like that and to be a voyeur of me and other guys. Of course if he didn't happen to ahve the voyeur yen that is the counterpart of my exhibitionist yen - then the transaction would not have worked out. In that - I'm very very lucky

But the point of this is that unless you try to establish that level of intimacy of sharing the sexual fantasies of BOTH partners - and being non-judgmental about those things your partner likes that you don't - then you narrow your chances of taking your sex life at home to a higher level.

In my case it helps that I have a guy who is not threatened by me having wild sex with other guys because he knows that ifor me it is hedonistic gratification not an emotional thing. In fact he happens to be turned on by seeing it when we do it in Amst. (or hearin about it afterwards on some occasions in the States.) And our sex life goes up like a hundreddold for the next few days as I recount and recreate all the details of my wild adventure.

But that may be an extreme example coz most guys might not feel that way. But the PRINCIPLE does hold. Namely that if you can find a way to nurture and encourage your partners wildest fantasies (maybe by play-acting them together in the bedroom) then your partner SHOULD be more willing to reciprocate in YOUR fantasies and activities - and (beneath the puritanical veneer that society imposes on us from birth) may turn out to have a wilder side than you imagine!

who knows - your goody two-shoes wife or gf may turn out to have an inner-Greta! Your own live-in fantasy slut but she never dared tell you because she thought that you would be horrified or mock her or condemn her (the old Madonna-"Thor" Complex)

[ BTW - I know that the site does not like or permit the word that normally comes after "Madonna" in the colloquial phrase - becuase it is usually used as a pejorative. So the site automatically changes that word to "Lady" ! As I discovered when I originally posted this! Seeing the phrase "Madonna-Lady complex" was obviously confusing - so I have edited this to be "Madonna-Thor Complex" and I guess you can figure out what word I actually intended to use! Since I'm using it in a sociological and pyschological sense - it should be acceptable!!!]

Well that's just my two cents.

Curious if any of my ramblings strike a chord with guys who are in relationships.

And the thoughts of other women on this board like Bonnie (of B&C fame) and Peter's wife etc

And of course I would love there to be more Gretas in the world and on this board! I could use a few slut sisters to share adventures with! A pack of sluts going on the prowl in Amsterdam for hot guys - wouldn't THAT be something ;-)/

greta


Last edited by greta on 2005-09-22, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-22, 6:44 am

Frans Hals
Posts: 75
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"Its almost as if one guy with one sexual fetish started the whole porn industry years ago, and he dictated what he liked and what should be shown, and it has all grown from there."

Aha, you espouse the theory of Intelligent Design. I, on the other hand, believe that this type of porn must have evolved. Presumbably it has been shown to be cost effective and from the producers' point of view gives maximum buck for the bang
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-22, 2:42 pm

tw25rw Power Kat
Posts: 703
Location: London
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I agree that so much is porn driven but also think that the contents of porn are driven by a two way action. By that I mean that porn forums involving porn producers seem to be dominated by a vocal minority who demand more anal in each movie, or more facials/dps etc etc. And unfortuantely they get their way.

Personally, I have seen so much porn that all these fetishes have worn thin and I just like to see a pretty girl getting it on one on one and fast forward through the anal etc. But I can believe that someone less jaded would probably want to re-enact what they have seen.

One problem I do have as result of years as a porn addict is that I'm used to having something to watch when aroused and used to taking my time and cumming when I choose, so in actual sex I find I don't have anything to look at and have to think porno thoughts in order to finish. Lea De Mae helped me finish many times, but she died so I had to retire her, so I'll have to fantasise about someone new during my upcoming Prague/Amsterdam/Bangkok trip.

So basically, I completely agree that porn can be a life wrecker, but also a life enhancer.

_________________
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No muff too tuff.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-22, 7:11 pm

Frans Hals
Posts: 75
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Thanks for such an honest response.

Sounds like you are a poster child for 'Pornified', but I think this is an extremely common condition. I also notice that many men on another board I frequent are very obsessed about getting only the very best-looking women, which suggests that visual stimulus is all-important for them.

Of course, we all have our fetishes. I find that what gets me off best is not pornographic images, but the orgasm of my partner. I do not pretend that every paid sexual partner I have does orgasm, but a fair proportion do. This is because in the selection process I focus a lot on the 'chemistry' between myself and the woman and screen out many who might provide a mechanical experience at the interview stage. I find that if I am having sex with a woman and it has reached the stage that it is clear that she is not going to have an orgasm, or is not interested in having one, then I just finish as fast as I can, but it is a bit like jerking off into a condom.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-22, 7:44 pm

uberchef
Posts: 246
Location: New York, NY
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I'm going to borrow your line Greta, if that's okay :)

"honey - as you know I have a lot of sexual fantasies - and I was fascinated to read that apparently women have sexual fantasies too - but that most guys are so insensitive to women's feelings that they inhibit their women from sharing them. I don't want to be like one of those insensitive guys. So I want you to feel safe to share your fantasies with me - and i will respect you for whatever they are - and try and incorporate them into our sex life...."

This is brilliant!
~uber.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-22, 8:27 pm

axxxtw Founder
Posts: 910
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As long as it does not involve "cuddling" afterwards. (gag!)

_________________
wash your hands.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-23, 12:29 am

MikeDeHavillandSupporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 635
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Interesting, but I should imagine if your average guy started suggesting that sort of stuff you would get the full "Aren't I engoung," and tears and face slapped. In fact ...groaaaann I just dont want to go there.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-23, 7:17 am

greta
Posts: 169
Location: USA
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no doubt that would happen in some or maybe a lot of cases. That depends on the guy, the girl and the level of honest communication in the relationship.

At the very least if it was a brand new topic to the relationship - it would have to be introuduced incredibly carefully and diplomatically by the guy.

But - most of us women in Western society were oppressed from childhood with the wretched religion-initiated dogma that nice girls don't do it etc etc So while most seemingly prudish women probably have a wilder sexual being inside - it has been supressed by fear of shame and ridicule.

and in the right hands it MIGHT be coaxed out to "play" if the women feels safe enough. And maybe not - I grant you that.

I was lucky in that I met a guy who was able to help me reach my sexual side that I had felt ashamed of for years. ("Nice girls would never want THAT - so I mustn't do that or I would be a bad girl")

It's up to guys. If you're in a relationship where you're not getting a lot of sexual pleasure -- what's the point? If you have kids and/or financial reasons for staying - that's understandable. But otherwise to be with a woman that doesn't enjoy and encourage your sexuality - and doesn't enjoy her own - well that sounds like a major drag...

are there other women out there who have freed themselves of the dumb anti-sex attitude of society? Sure. I have no clue what percentage. But they exist. Maybe they don't all look like a "10" or an RLD "hottie" But for what it's worth - I'll bet that the average super-model type (who anyway express little interest in average Joe types) are not great company in a relationship (being pretty self-absorbed) and may not be that great at sex. Certainly not as a willing partner as concerned about YOUR orgasm as her own.

So maybe there are women out there who would be saxually compatible and a cool partner to hang with. Maybe they are a rarity - Possibly... I don't know.

But it's a shame to settle for less without a real good look first.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-23, 3:28 pm

uberchef
Posts: 246
Location: New York, NY
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I don't know about that axxxtw, I'm sensing a bit of cuddle-phobia from your general direction.

I'm a big fan of the pre and post coital "cuddle" man! You've got to dive in to the cuddle-mode to fully realize the potential that lies therein.

Isn't that what most of these blokes are looking for out of a "GFE" anyways? I know some tender lovin' care definitely makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside and out ;o)

And to Greta's point, any form of mutual affection and openness is most likely going to result in a better sensation/experience for both partners....

You know what Shaft always said about cuddling...."Damn right!"

~uber
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-23, 4:15 pm

axxxtw Founder
Posts: 910
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;-)

_________________
wash your hands.
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-23, 4:39 pm

greta
Posts: 169
Location: USA
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LOL!

totally right!

to be serious for a sec. - I have two kinds of sex with kyle.

hot porno sex where we're reliving a past adventure or imagining a new hot adventure to come -- and that is just downright filthy dirty action in every way - and I don;t want no romantic cuddling shit afterwards! I'm truly not in the mood for the candles and romance stuff. my mind is usually in the gutter ;-) and all i want is more lowdown sex

and then we have nights where we DO want a romantic interlude. it gets signalled. if I light some frou-frou vanilla scented candles and omit the slut PVC outfit in favor of a frilly red peasant top - that's a kinda clue that kyle picks up on!

tell me i'm lucky - maybe i am - but i totally believe that you can distingusih and steer what type of sex and mood you have with your partner. the key is communication and trading a bit

I'm pretty sure that if it was left to kyle he'd want to fuck just in the porno mode. he has a disgusting dirty mind and he loves me to look like a nympho slut. But he knows that occasionally i need to be treated like a lttle girl and romanced. and yeah after bein romanced I wanna cuddle!

hope this inspires some of you guys to check it out at home too
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-23, 6:32 pm

420 Power Kat
Posts: 1021
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This is quite an interesting topic! Aftter living with a non-emotional, non-sexual diva type for ten years (with two children) I found myself walking the Wallen four years ago "wookin pa nub" one chilly morning in Nov. 2001.. The very first session I had was with a petitie hottie named Sarah on the Tromp. I was utterly amazed at the thought that I could have something this delicious whenever I wanted. Four sex filled years later (15 -20 visits to Amsterdam, Frankfurt Fkk clubs, Prague, Costa Rica, Thailand, et. al) I find myself in the middle of this dilemma regarding sex and my local GF. Most of the girls I have spent time with in foreign venues are in their early to mid 20's.. My GF is a very petite 32,,,, very similar body and appearance to Nina from the Wallen

I believe honesty has been paramount in my venture into "normal" girlfriend sex.. I live in an area that is predominantly single,,lots of hot women and girls of all ages. Many of the middle aged women are post divorce and surgically enhanced. Their outward expression is very sexually oriented but the inner mentallity is a mess of anger, retribution, inhibition, and lack of trust. Add all those issues toghether AND the issues of being a single mother adds up to quite a challenge for the local guys.. If we bi-pass the issues related to ex-spouses, children, jobs,,etc.. and get right into the sex issues which is surely the topic here,, things get dicey!

My GF found out thru the local "circle jerks" that I travel to places like Thailand, Amsterdam, Costa Rica,,,etc,, to just fuck prostitutes.. As most of you know,, I do enjoy dabbling with the girls but mainly take my trips to check out new environments,,, the essence of "whorticulture"!
We had some "good sex" prior to these revelations,,,nothing quite like the pornograhphic sessions I've had in PHG, World, Goldentime, K-5, and occasionally in the Wallen/Achterdam but nevertheless,, pretty damn nice (IMO) for the local home cooking :-) The more we talk about it,, the more sex she wants... Still cannot get to that open stage,,,may try Greta's question on her soon (Great prose)

She brought the subject up and I decided that the truth would be my best option. No time for game playing any longer in my life..,,no bullshit.. regarding my trips to the various countries mentioned above (no mention of FKK Clubs) and have tried to explain to this women that my years of sexual frustration while being married was the main driving force for my mongering/travel exploits over the past few years.. Additionally, the relationships I have had with the local women are so full of drama that I really do not have the patience to deal with all the various sub-plots like ex husbands,jobs,, hormones, girlfriends, and a variety of other issues.

She is not judgemental (at least for now) but I sense that she looks at me in either one or two ways... One,, that I am a experienced worldly man that will satisfy her repressed sexual desires,, ,,, two,, that I am a pig! She often comments that this is the best sex she has ever had but rarely gets out of the box (no pun intended) when it comes to the pornographic type sex we have encountered in our various foray's into the playgrounds we all visit. I am alittle hesitant to breach that issue,, time will tell. I liken this scenerio to a Working girl trying to explain her past to virgin,,,hoping that either he really will enjoy the experiences she can offer him or completely turning him off due to the sensitivity of this very topic...

The one thing that tends to put me in a bind is do I continue to elaborate about these expereinces when asked,, or do I basiclly just tell her "thats my own business"!! A very slippery slope!!

This is tough topic,,have been thinking about posting on this transition from P4P to Girlfriend sex ,,, ,,, One minute I am thinking about booking a trip back to Germany,, the next minute I am planning on where I will go for dinner this evening!

Add some Absinth into the equation,,,, wow!!!

_________________
Pura Vida
Re: Pornified
Posted: 2005-09-23, 7:38 pm

greta
Posts: 169
Location: USA
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totally sympathetic to your predicament! and your comments about women who have been in bad relationships having all that baggage is totally right. Several of my gfs are a little bitter. And that does make it tough for a guy.

I'm in favor of step-by-step honesty. ie revealing little by little - on a reciprocal basis. If she is truly non-judgemental and really into you - she will respect that.

can you imagine how tough it was for me a convent gal (truly!) to admit to a guy that I had sluttish tendencies! that i liked the idea of cum on my face. That I liked the idea of people watching me have sex... i had repressed ALL of this in my 20's. I was in a relationshoip and having boring sat. night sex. my fantaises were my only outlet. So i enjoyed all my dirty thoughts when I masturbated. and kept them private from my bf

when I met kyle i was totally hot for him and couldn't figure why he didn't want to have sex with me immediately. he then sat down with me in quiet environment and dared to share (slowly at first) his philosophy about sex. very tolerant of all people having "predilictions" (which turned out to be a less dirty word than I hoped!) ie desires, preferences. little personal kinks that please an individual/

said it didn't matter how we got 'em. usually from childhood or teen experiences. But that as long as they didn't HURT other people - there was nothing wrong with them. He explained that he had several such quirky things and that he didn't expect that anyone would be into them but that if they were - well that was great. And if not -well we can be pals - but there won't be any sexual relationship

well i was totally intrigued to know what his kinks were! And I totally lovedthat he was so upfront. when I asked about his it was like asking a 6-year-old boy to show me his pee-pee! only if I showed him myself in turn!

that seemed fair. and though i was totally nervous - he had set it up right. quiet room. no phones or cell phones on. a whole evening to talk openly. man I got off on that approach. he respected me as a woman.

turned out we were a match. he loved to fantasize his woman getting off with other guys and girls and then be with his woman after. And i just happen to have a slut in me that was dying to be with other people and be watched by a partner who would get a kick out of it

(FYI kyle and i have a LOT of sex just the two of us - and he is quite the performer - but he enjoys the voyeurism too)

over a few weeks we slowly built up the level of trust - I totally melted and we just talked for hours over several weeks. Looked at porno and swinger websites together - and I felt free to tell him my dirtiest fantasies coz he did the same with me.

now i cannot promise that your gf - or any other gf or prospective gf - will be as open to this as I was. there are alot of fucked-up people out there. women and guys. we grow up in a repressive society. a lot of people can be assholes. And others are just ignorant and unfeeling. brought up without the empathy chip. and then if a person is hurt by an asshole - the other person can become bitter. and it certainly shows in the current nature of male-female realtionships

i hope this helps you and others.

i do know this - if my relationship with kyle doesn't last - and it has been great for a few years now - i know I could never go back to a boring realtionship with a guy who is insensitive. This is not about the guy being "girly" or pretending to like chick-flicks (BTW kyle likes them more than i do!). This is about guys being honest with themselves and the woman. and treating women as prospective equal partners. with respect for their feelings and own desires etc

and sometimes - maybe many times - you will undoubtedly strike out and find a total bitch just into guys with money etc. I know those women exist/ Just as there are dreadful guys who are callous about girls and see them just as sex objects.

as you get smarter you can prob. identify them fast and save wasting time and money on them!

but there ARE women out there who would love to be treated with respect. And who ARE highly sexual under the protected exterior. Read an amazing book called the Secret Garden to learn how women have the filthiest dirtiest fantasies!

my bf now has a gf that lets HIM have all HIS fantasies cum true - and i have a bf who not only tolerates my wild side - by totally encourages it.

i got to believe that I'm not partic. special. I think I'm the tip of an iceberg of women who love sex and are just wiating for a guy who we can trust enuf to be open and compare notes etc.

I hope so. But being in a sham relationship where your partner doesn't repect your sexual side is such a drag for anyone.

we're going to be a long time dead - so let's enjoy our lives and respect ourselves enough to work hard to find a decent partner - or be without. Better no partner than be with soemone where the sex is not at least reasonably hot

greta
Cuddle? reminds me of the old joke..
Posted: 2005-09-23, 9:06 pm

MikeDeHavillandSupporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 635
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Whats the difference between a good shit and a good shag?

You don't have to cuddle a good shit afterwards.
Re: Cuddle? reminds me of the old joke..
Posted: 2005-09-24, 12:06 am

Mr.Plug
Posts: 88
Location: Arizona, USA
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Greta, we are lucky to have you here. I've been following your writings throughout this thread, and of course, remember your contributions from some time back. You've always impressed me as being quite lucky, in that it seems you've got your head screwed on straight, you are totally open and uninhibited about your needs and desires, and you're very smart! Not to mention that you're in a fully compatible relationship which encourages and supports all of these things.

Its always all about respect and communication. Think how hard it is to communicate with people in the everyday world - so many disagreements, misunderstandings, biases, hatred, even different languages spoken - but now consider how much more complicated it becomes to strive for sexual intimacy, with all of the communication and trust which is required. It's almost impossible to achieve that perfect sexual plateau!

Now, I'm not necessarily the type of guy that likes your preferred "slutty" sex, but I'll bet that if there were a world full of women out there like you, there would also be a alot more happy guys. Notice I didn't say ALL guys would be happy. Thats because everyone is different, and everyone has different sexual apetites and desires. As much as you go to bat for the poor guys out there who should be in relationships with more impassioned and sexually charged women, the opposite side of the coin is also true: there are lots of guys out there who have very little desire, sexually; who have little imagination or desire to spice things up, and who, frankly (when it came right down to it) would rather work on their car than have to have sex with the wife. Yeah, it takes two to tango, no doubt, but there are so many people out there, both men and women, to whom sex doesn't really rank that highly (no one on THIS board, of course!!).

You summed it up for me when you said, "turned out we were a match". I think that says it all. In my experience, its so rare to find TWO people who match each other sexually as well as you and Kyle do. I see the world as a ocean full of fish, (married and unmarried fish), and there's one fish with pink pokadots on his fins over in the Pacific ocean surrounded by hoards of fish with blue stripes. But there's also one or two fish with pink pokadots over in the Atlantic ocean, and if you could match them up - there'd be sparks flying!

Its a complicated world out there. Wouldn't it be nice if everybody could be matched up automatically with their perfect mate, both from a practicality and sexual standpoint?

-- Mr. Plug
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