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Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 1:33 am

donpacino
Posts: 88
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PlayItAgainSam wrote:
Frankly, its perhaps not our place to tell the Dutch what to do. Far better for us to try to legaize right here at home.

Sam


No offence but i doubt you or anyone else on here would be saying that if the head line read:

”tourists banned from using prostitutes in the netherlands"

Whatever the country is, whatever the product/service is, no government has the right to discriminate, dictating who and who not can use them. I mean bloody hell it is 2011 not the middle ages.

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Smoke and F**k till you drop
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 2:23 am

PlayItAgainSamSupporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 824
Reply to topic 
donpacino wrote:
PlayItAgainSam wrote:
Frankly, its perhaps not our place to tell the Dutch what to do. Far better for us to try to legaize right here at home.

Sam


No offence but i doubt you or anyone else on here would be saying that if the head line read:

”tourists banned from using prostitutes in the netherlands"

Whatever the country is, whatever the product/service is, no government has the right to discriminate, dictating who and who not can use them. I mean bloody hell it is 2011 not the middle ages.


I totally hear what you're saying, even I'm not one of those who goes to Amsterdam for the RLD...:)

That said, as much as I will regret seeing our oasis of freedom disappear, every government has the right to make its own laws. Sometimes those laws will be seen as discriminatory by citizens of other countries, but thats par for the course. What we can do, though, is work to get some of those insane laws nullified in our own country. You might say that is way too unrealistic, and you may be right...

Sam
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 2:40 am

donpacino
Posts: 88
Reply to topic 
PlayItAgainSam wrote:
I totally hear what you're saying, even I'm not one of those who goes to Amsterdam for the RLD...:)

That said, as much as I will regret seeing our oasis of freedom disappear, every government has the right to make its own laws. Sometimes those laws will be seen as discriminatory by citizens of other countries, but thats par for the course. What we can do, though, is work to get some of those insane laws nullified in our own country. You might say that is way too unrealistic, and you may be right...

Sam


Fair play to ya, sorry if i sounded a bit of a dick, it is just this topic is quite personal and close to my heart (see my above post earlier) and i really dont wanna see things change.

On a plus note, i have heard that each mayor of each city/town is being given the choice as to wether they implement this pass system or not and will not be forced to by the central government, so more than likely the big non border citys/towns will survive this, but then maybe not.

Believe me im part of the movement in the uk to change things, unfortunatley though it isnt moving very fast at the moment and looks to stay that way for quite some time. :(

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Smoke and F**k till you drop
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 1:59 pm

george47 Power Kat
Posts: 802
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The fact that drugs are only tolerated and not actually legal in Holland means that they are (by the Dutch authorities) considered a bad thing. It is the Dutch way of dealing with the 'problem' of drug use. ie keeping it above ground rather than underground for less harmful substances.
For that reason it does not seem strange to me that the tolerance is reserved for Dutch residents only. It is natural that they would want to deter foreigners travelling to the country to participate in something they consider 'bad'. Will foreigners really travel to Holland to participate in underground dealing?
This does not mean I support the new proposals but I can certainly understand them.
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 3:36 pm

block
Posts: 413
Location: Texas 2
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I just got back from Maastricht and there is no restriction of foreigners as this article states.

_________________
"I sure learned a lot from Bill Evans"

Miles Davis
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 4:04 pm

spanner
Posts: 36
Reply to topic 
Most consider having sex with a prostitute immoral & bad.

So would it seem strange to you if they changed the prostitution laws to Dutch Only????????
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 4:22 pm

amsterdamfats
Posts: 152
Location: jersey usa
Reply to topic 
The passes will become valuable like a taxi cab medallion. You'll find a guy with a pass in Vondel Park and he will meet you back at your hotel room with your order. If weed will still be available in shops, it will certainly create a secondary market on the street. The criminal elements must be drooling just waiting for this to go into effect.

I'll be there in July so I hope it doesn't take effect until after then!
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 8:10 pm

makelove Power Kat
Posts: 600
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This is a dream come true for criminals. I would not be surpised if they even bribe a few politicians to vote for this new law One thing is sure, this will create a huge illegal street market and bring new criminal organisations to Amsterdam. The already existing criminal organisations will grow and that might well affect other activities like for example prostitution. The bridge trolls will return in a multiplied number...
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 8:29 pm

george47 Power Kat
Posts: 802
Reply to topic 
spanner wrote:
Most consider having sex with a prostitute immoral & bad.

So would it seem strange to you if they changed the prostitution laws to Dutch Only????????


No not at all. I would totally understand that also. If you are coming from a position where you think drugs and prostitution is bad for society then it is natural to change the current free for all situation. I am simply saying that those people with those views would not want drug or sex tourism but may tolerate it for locals. Mostly it would only be the locals who participate in underground drug dealing and prostitution so it is only they that need to be tolerated. Members of this forum have already talked about not going if all the changes happen. That alone proves the planned changes are likely to achieve their intention.
I am not supporting this. I am just understanding it from the authorities point of view. For selfish reasons I hope things stay as they are.
BTW I guess prostitution is a little different since it originated for sailors coming into the city. I don't know the scale of sailors coming in nowadays.
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 8:47 pm

PlayItAgainSamSupporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 824
Reply to topic 
makelove wrote:
This is a dream come true for criminals. I would not be surpised if they even bribe a few politicians to vote for this new law One thing is sure, this will create a huge illegal street market and bring new criminal organisations to Amsterdam. The already existing criminal organisations will grow and that might well affect other activities like for example prostitution. The bridge trolls will return in a multiplied number...


Something along the lines of what you're saying - not the bribery that I'm aware of - is supposed to have happened in California with Prop 19. Growers, for example, did not want to see it legalized.
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 11:06 pm

balou1999_75962
Posts: 240
Location: Mokum
Reply to topic 
block wrote:
I just got back from Maastricht and there is no restriction of foreigners as this article states.

This was just announced Friday. They ban as planned is to start in the south later this year before heading north.

Peace,
Balou
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-29, 11:50 pm

block
Posts: 413
Location: Texas 2
Reply to topic 
Read the article again


"Some Dutch border towns including Maastricht and Terneuzen have already restricted the sale of marijuana to foreigners"


This is just not true. Each shop I went into asked for an ID which is what they have been doing for the past few years. My ID has TEXAS written all over it and I was never turned away.

_________________
"I sure learned a lot from Bill Evans"

Miles Davis
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-30, 12:53 am

PlayItAgainSamSupporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 824
Reply to topic 
block wrote:
Read the article again


This is just not true. Each shop I went into asked for an ID which is what they have been doing for the past few years. My ID has TEXAS written all over it and I was never turned away.


They did make you take off your cowboy hat, though, didn't they?... :)

Sam
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-30, 2:50 am

block
Posts: 413
Location: Texas 2
Reply to topic 
Hey,Play it Once more,you hit very close there. Just for fun I did indeed wear a vintage wide brim Cowboy hat just to see what would happen. Mind you,I am 50 years old and grey with the very small amount of hair I have. I had 3 people stop me in Schipol and took pictures. And walking thru Maastricht with the hat drew some stares. I am a Texan but only wear a Cowboy hat to protect my skin from the sun.

On the morning of May 13th 0400 hrs I departed Brusselestraat in Maastricht and walked the 20-30 minute walk to the train station. I had the Cowboy hat on at that time and many college students were still trying to crawl back home. The hat drew attention at that point as well.

_________________
"I sure learned a lot from Bill Evans"

Miles Davis
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-30, 2:58 am

PlayItAgainSamSupporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 824
Reply to topic 
Thats hilarious, block! I was being flip!

Sam
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-30, 10:17 am

Lollipopz
Posts: 11
Location: U.K
Reply to topic 
Aww this kind of has me confused...what exactly is happening?
I understand fully that the Netherlands has the right to do what they want as it is thier country, I dont blame them if they are feeling this is the right thing to do.
I think a ban on foreigners buying weed is a bit harsh as not all tourists to the country are there for the same intentions - I feel that the amount of tourists over-doing it and disrespecting the country and its culture doesnt help.
Myself & my boyfriend were planning on our first visit to Amsterdam together (have been seperately) and to be honest, purchasing cannabis for our own personal use in the country was to be part of our trip together - we are not alcohol drinkers, we do enjoy culture and night-life and cant see where the harm would be for people like us to relax and enjoy it. I wouldnt be so sure on going now if the case is to purchase cannabis from a dealer to simply be able to relax and enjoy our trip - its not worth the risk and wouldnt be good.
I hope that the government see that there are other options.
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-30, 11:36 am

Aardvark
Posts: 299
Location: U.K.
Reply to topic 
Lollipopz, I would still plan a trip, especially if it's for this year as we don't know when this is going to happen or if it will happen at all in Amsterdam (if Mayors get to make the decision on whether to implement this or not the Amsterdam Mayor would be unlikely to implement this).

I have to agree with George on this topic. From an academic and selfish point of view I think the Dutch would be foolish to push Cannabis underground. I could, and have, written a huge amount on this subject but who are we, as outsiders, to dictate to the Dutch what to do in their own country?
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-30, 3:28 pm

Lollipopz
Posts: 11
Location: U.K
Reply to topic 
I agree - and thankyou for the advice Aardvark.
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-30, 3:41 pm

spanner
Posts: 36
Reply to topic 
I to hope this never comes to fully pass.The attraction to visiting Amsterdam is the tolerance they have for certain things other countires deam illegal.

I remember the first time I went into a coffee shop.I was all stealth like.I was even worse the first time I went down to the RLD.I had to keep telling myslef this is normal over here there is nothing to be afriad of or embarrassed about, no one is watching or judging you, act like a local would.


Going out this June, I guess I will get the skinny on this sooner rather than later.....
Re: its no toke!!
Posted: 2011-05-30, 10:01 pm

neurosynthPower Kat XXX
Power Kat XXX
Posts: 2213
Reply to topic 
I'll let someone locally in tune with the politics there correct me if I'm wrong, but here is my impression as to what is really happening here:

For a number of reasons the relatively far right has taken control of the government, and they by nature want to eliminate hedonism and replace it with discipline and order. Plus they have a knee-jerk antipathy towards anyone from outside of their borders, be they Islamic immigrants or western tourists...more the former than the latter, but both nevertheless. There will be various arguments put forward to make the change seem prudent and rational, but ultimately it's a worldview and personality-type conflict being played out.

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http://tinyurl.com/eurolights - My Google map for window-style prostitution thoughout Europe with exact street locations, star ratings, typical prices, street views, club URL's, kamer maps etc. Also links to the best maps for FKK's and so on.
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