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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-06-27, 7:12 am

neurosynthPower Kat XXX
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weasel9x9 let's be clear here.

I didn't say you are a racist.

I didn't say anyone who voted Leave must be a racist.

I didn't say there was only one cause behind Brexit.

My point is that *one* of the causes of Brexit has grown over time, and it's growing in other countries, and it's growing in the US. That (partial, contributing) cause is a growing sense of tribalism, i.e. a sense of us versus them, and an attendant reactionary move to the use of force and hierarchical authority to purify the tribal land.

This can take the form of racism. It can take the form of religious bigotry. But most of all it creates an intolerance of others. It's a form of reactionary nationalism that tends to seek authoritarian solutions such as elevating laws above humanitarian empathy, and seeking out leaders who don't propose specific rational solutions so much as issue emotional calls to join their personality cult.

Trust daddy, and daddy will take care of things. Daddy will chase away the bad people. We've seen this movie before. It always exacts a terrible cost on everyone involved. Nobody wins. The lucky ones merely survive.

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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-06-28, 8:55 am

bendover1004
Posts: 108
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Aldebran Linkbat wrote:
If we leave the EEA the new passport will be something to look at while you stand in the long passport queue for non-EU citizens at Schipol ;)


No queuing for Privium :)
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-06-30, 12:03 am

izziehurix
Posts: 158
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As far as my life as a punter is concerned, I'd see Brexit having considerable implications to the the status of London as one of the premiere English-speaking cities for continental European escorts, particularly from Eastern Europe.
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-03, 6:16 pm

davey1800Power Kat XXX
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As far as I'm concerned the "Leave" vote is great. I don't care about financial implications, restrictions on our travel, trade agreements etc... but what I do agree with is us having control over our own borders.

The EU started out as a trading community (i.e. a few European countries grouped together to get better trade deals). This is a good thing. But, it transformed itself into a political tool, forcing unwanted laws onto member states.

To be in the EU you have to have a Human Rights agreement. This has allowed many hateful Muslims to stay in the UK when they should be kicked out for treasonous acts. The EU has backed their right to stay when their case reaches the European Courts. This is outrageous. We have hateful people sponging off the very people they profess to hate, whilst also threatening to kill all non-believers of their faith/cult... and we have to take it? Humbug!

Where I live we have had a huge influx of Polish people and Czechs, Lithuanians etc... good people. But the recent waves of economic immigrants from the new "backwater" states has contributed to turning parts of my beloved city into ghettos. Crime is up, sex attacks are up, the schools are full to bursting, the NHS is packed full of foreigners who have hardly paid any taxes yet fleece it of it's resources. The NHS has to spend a fortune on translators.

Our social housing is being leeched upon by unskilled economic migrants. The housing market has been turned into a buy-to-let market to cater for these new people. Rents are up due to overwhelming demand. But the unskilled migrants get their houses paid for whilst they sit at home smoking and running brothels.

All my local primary schools have also had to screen off the playgrounds from outside viewing... immigrant men were filming the children playing in the playgrounds. Also, a lot of sex assaults go unreported despite the whole area knowing about them. The local newspaper doesn't say a word about them.. but any perceived slight against a non UK person is given front page status.

There's clearly an agenda in the media. But for what purpose? After the "Leave" vote was confirmed all I saw and read about was the negatives and how the "Remain" voters have been let down. Let down by who? If everybody in the UK voted then I'm quite sure that the vote would've been 60/40 in favour of "Remain". But this is the issue... those that wanted to remain in the EU have blinkers on... they're ok, they have a house, a job, spare money each month, their communities are UK citizens... so a lot of them didn't vote. Why should they? Everything's fine for them so it must be fine for everybody else, surely? But in the real world i.e. the northern towns and cities, we see the truth. It's an invasion, designed to bolster the workforce and keep wages down. Poor people rack up debt. Why buy a TV for £300 in cash when you can buy it for £400 with a credit card or loan? This is what the banks want; more unskilled workers = more borrowing = more debt = more money for them! Rich people mostly aren't prone to racking up debt.

David Cameron said it would be 30 years before Turkey was allowed to join the EU. I suspect they'll be fast-tracked within 5-10 years. There's another 90 million Muslims to join the others who've already repopulated Western Europe. Paris, Marseille, Luton and Brussels are typical of what a lot more Western cities will be like in the next 20 years... ghettos, havens for Muslim extremists who hate the very people they share their new country with.

Islam, as well as unskilled migrants, is the worrying issue for the people I know who voted "Leave". Islam is not compatable with Western culture so there can only be trouble ahead.

If what I've written is perceived as a wild rant then forgive me, but enough is enough. Those people living in fantasyland should get out there and see what the UK is really like and not trust the media's view. I wanted my country back. I wanted our borders back. I want to keep our national identity. We need skilled migrants, not unskilled and uncultured leechers. I'm proud to be British.. but if the Union breaks up then so be it. I'd rather just be English than be a slave to the EU, with open borders.
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-04, 1:15 am

neurosynthPower Kat XXX
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Thank you for a textbook example of bigotry. Your use of sweeping stereotypes is truly breathtaking. You left out the part about spreading disease and smelling bad, but other than that you seem to have touched all the bases.

Quote:
Islam is not compatable with Western culture so there can only be trouble ahead.


What utter nonsense. Europe can learn from the USA on this account. In America people of different cultures are assimilated...expected to adopt some minimal shared core values, but are also free to retain *the aesthetics* of their original culture. It's most difficult for the first generation. But with good will, by the second or third generation Muslim kids are just American kids. And they are *accepted* as American kids.

In France, for example, you can be a third or forth generation immigrant, but you're still not considered French. You're still Moroccan or whatever. It seems like this kind of thing happens in the UK as well.

As long as bigotry pushes immigrants into "their own" neighborhoods, and as long as the mainstream culture not only doesn't expect assimilation but actively prevents it, yes there are going to be major conflicts. *Both* sides have to be open to assimilation. It's the bigotry and segregation that causes the problems, not some kind of theorized "incompatibility" between Islam and the European West.

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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-04, 10:02 am

davey1800Power Kat XXX
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Neuro, while I appreciate your different point of view with regards to the UK, and it's place in the EU, I can only say that you have no idea what you're talking about. The USA was empty (after the Natives were killed off) and so needed immigration on vast scales. The UK is full. Look at the map of the UK and take away Scotland and Wales (as their countryside is too mountainous for habitation). So, England is the size of Florida which has a population of 20 million. We have a population of 54 million. Again, we are full.

So, throw a load of non English speaking immigrants into the mix, with their own non-conformist culture, and pack them in tight into already overcrowded towns and cities and it's a recipe for disaster. The USA on the other hand has plenty of free space, so you can just open your borders and say "Come on in!" like the EU wants us to do.

Now, you can take away my perceived bigotry and racism, but you've still got the inescapable fact that our schools are full, our NHS is overburdened, crime is up, ghettos are being created, muslim pedophile gangs are running amok.

I've been to the USA three times and I'll be honest... the USA and UK have different values. We value the right to be able to walk the streets unmolested, whilst in the USA (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you have complete and utter no-go areas for whites in most major cities. This isn't normal. We don't want this scenario in the UK, but some towns and parts of cities are already like this here. They are being taken over by non conforming unskilled immigrants. Trashy trailer parks (as seen on my to Tampa), urban ghettos (as seen in Las Vegas) and gang controlled streets (as seen whilst hurtling through Brooklyn and Queens aren't a normal way of life in civilised society.

In the USA you say you have the right to bear arms so you can protect yourself, while here in the UK we feel that we shouldn't be threatened in the first place.

This may be harsh to you but you're ignorant of UK values. The USA and the UK are not the same.
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-04, 3:09 pm

greenhoffSupporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 3070
Location: sunny dorset uk
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great post davey1800

must admit I was furious when Obama came over to the UK, saying we should remain in the EU

1.it has f*ck all to do with him what WE decide

2. imagine Americans reaction if Cameron went over to the states saying you should allow all Mexicans into the USA

Glad we are out, f*cking delighted, now the " remainers" want another referendum, f*ck off, you lost, get over it

rant over

regards

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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-05, 9:02 am

neurosynthPower Kat XXX
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I've lived in Europe. I stayed in the UK. I've worked side by side with Brits and Scots. I have close friends who are the same. I'm in daily meaningful communication with people all around the world. I understand history.

And most of all I know bigotry when I hear it. I'm not going to go back and re-quote some of the garbage that people here have thrown at Muslims, painting the typical images of swarthy sexual perverts haunting schoolyards waiting to rape your pale blond children.

The world has seen this trash before. After all these years has Europe learned nothing? Or has it been too long, and all has been forgotten?

https://i1.wp.com/www.darkmoon.me/uploa ... ns_400.jpg

But that's not to let the US off the hook. What is happening in Europe and the US is really not so different. Globalization has broken down old barriers, and economies that used to be insulated from each other have now become connected. So now these once disconnected economies have resources, jobs, profit, *people*, and opportunities sloshing about trying to reach some kind of global equilibrium.

But it's a myth that this process has meant the west has lost wealth. What has happened is that the wealth has *shifted* to the upper 1%. Globalization has created incredible wealth, but it's all been trapped at the top with a tiny increasingly wealthy number pulling away from the rest of society. There's enough to go around. There's enough to pay for health and economic progress for the working classes. But the distribution is all out of balance.

And that's the challenge. Scapegoating immigrants, or overseas manufacturing, or other workers in any form is misdirection that serves the wealthy few. I believe in capitalism, but it's a machine that needs to be kept in good balance with careful engineering maintenance. The free market is not charmed or magical or naturally occurring. It is an object of human design.

Here in the US we have Donald Trump who is taking the exact same tack as the Brexit Bunch. Build walls, scapegoat minorities, impose tariffs, and do anything else that will turn back the clock to a time when the world was segregated by race, nationality, and most of all, insulated economies. At least that's what he, in his bumbling inarticulate way, wants to sell us. But he's a con man. He's doing what he has always done...promising something wonderful for everyone, and then grabbing all the wealth for the few.

It's time to get on the right side of history. Sooner or later markets and economies will be rebalanced, and the 1% will have to give back their disproportionate growth. I only hope we can do it sooner rather than later, because the bigger the gap, the more painful will be the correction.

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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-05, 1:11 pm

taximan31
Posts: 63
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Selfishly for me it has been great so far. In the last 2 weeks I have sold more items to overseas customers. Orders up 500%.
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-06, 4:53 am

weasel9x9Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 1866
Location: cheesehead central
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The way that history decides who was on the wrong side, is by making them suffer and fail.
They are over-run by the successful.
That is how history takes it's toll.

The difference between the prepared, the well educated and well equiped, and the also-rans has never been greater or more obvious.

Emotional pleadings to "do the right thing" are no substitute for being able to compete in a modern, high-tech world. Much of the Clinton stratgy for political success over the past 30 years has been to convince people that they are victims, and that the Clinton's will save them. (As she takes hundreds of millions of dollars in bribes from the banks and leaders that she publicly scolds)
I don't see the long-term value to making people feel better about failing.
Sure, it gets votes. But as a way to lead a country (assuming she stays out of jail long enough to get to an election), it is fool's gold. Politicians don't exist to make me feel good. They exist to manage public resources. The last guy that got elected here to make everybody feel good about themselves has managed to run the debt up to 20 TRILLION dollars. I know what failing economies look like. Start with 20 Trillion dollars of debt, refuse to take corrective action, and you are well on the way.
I don't want anyone to feel good about failure. I want them to be pissed off.
I want them to take that very hard lesson to heart, and do a better job next time.
THAT is how to end up on the right side of history.

I would never teach my children to do any less than their best.
I expect them to excel. I expect them to manage their lives and finances.
I expect them to value and pursue education, and to use their skills to be as productive as possible.
And I expect that after all that, they will have a dim view of those that fail to do the same.
They may have mercy, but they should be free of guilt.
My personal opinion is that there has never been a time in history when it has been easier of more accepted to make excuses for not managing personal responsibility.
Wah, wah, wah.....
Get a haircut, and get a job.

Weasel

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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-06, 5:49 am

weasel9x9Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Posts: 1866
Location: cheesehead central
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And in case you missed it today:

The Director of the FBI gave a press conference where he labeled Clinton's actions regarding use of a private server system for government use as "extremely careless".
He went further, stating that "any reasonable person" would have known not to do so.
I've never been investigated by the FBI. I would consider that a bad thing.
I'm unaware of any presidential candidate ever being under such an investigation (by apointees of THEIR OWN POLITICAL PARTY, no less).
Where can I get the bumper sticker:
"Extremely careless but still not in jail. Hillary for President!"
Greedy, sleazy, bribe-taking, enabling dinosaur wife of a rapist.
Obviously, I'm not a fan.
Maybe we can join the EU, and have Brussels run things.
I see there is a vacancy.

Weasel

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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-06, 8:54 pm

neurosynthPower Kat XXX
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"As she takes hundreds of millions of dollars in bribes"

That's a straight up lie. I'll address the two most common sources of this bogus accusation:

(1) She was paid large amounts for speeches. As it turns out the amounts she's been paid aren't so different than the amounts paid others of equal fame at venues of equal stature. Indeed, Donald Trump has been paid comparable amounts for speeches.

And there's never been any quid pro quo established for a single speech. Not one. And that's the essence of a bribe.

(2) Large amounts of money has been donated to the Clinton Foundation. The Clinton Foundation is a fully vetted grade A *charity* that does good things for poor people around the world. It is a very efficient, low overhead organization. The money can't be used for elections. The money can't be used for personal needs. The Clintons don't profit from the Clinton Foundation.

In the very worst case analysis, what they are doing is taking from the rich to give to the poor. And again, no quid pro quo has ever been established.

Meanwhile Donald Trump is the only major presidential candidate since Nixon 40 years ago to refuse to release his taxes. The Clintons have almost 40 years of tax returns in the public record.

SO...what is it that Trump thinks will sink his run for the presidency? What is he hiding?

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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-07, 3:25 am

weasel9x9Supporting Member
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Posts: 1866
Location: cheesehead central
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Her husband was taking in MILLIONS of dollars from foreign governments and businesses while they had dealings before the State Department, where she sat in the big chair. I was tempted to say that she led the State Department, but that is more credit than she deserves.

Anyone that wants to donate to charity can give to the Boy Scouts or the Red Cross without the help of the Clintons.

The reason they "donate" to the Clinton Family Foundation is to buy favor with the Clinton family.

The FBI is not done with her yet. There is a second ongoing investigation of the Clinton Famiy Foundation.

And I'm sure that Citibank gave her $250,000 per speech not to buy future favors, but because she is just so damn much fun to listen to.

Suckers

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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-07, 6:39 am

archie321
Posts: 3
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As a 24 year old Londoner, I felt very hard done by the results of the referendum. I also went to university in Scotland so many of my acquaintances and close friends shared my view on "Remain". The aftermath is also rather shocking as Britain was suddenly split into 2 distinct groups: "patriots" who rejoiced in winning their country back; and pessimists who are over-reacting to the results, which is exacerbated by the main stream media that predicts the impending doom of Great Britain

It is uncontroversial to claim that Brexit certainly has significant short term adverse effects to the Britain's economy: the pound has fallen to its lowest since 1985 (How old were you guys then); certain UK based companies such as Barclays etc have plummeted in its stock price. However I believe and I sincerely hope I am right that Britain would soon recover once the mourning period is over. Once the new PM is selected, there will be a greater sense of clarity and we shall see how negotiations over the next 2 years go.

What annoyed me the most is the reasoning of a minority of the Leave voters. They want Britain to take back control of their boarders and rather mistakenly believe that Brexit could solve the "Muslim" and immigration problems: Davey1800 claimed

"To be in the EU you have to have a Human Rights agreement. This has allowed many hateful Muslims to stay in the UK when they should be kicked out for treasonous acts. The EU has backed their right to stay when their case reaches the European Courts. This is outrageous. We have hateful people sponging off the very people they profess to hate, whilst also threatening to kill all non-believers of their faith/cult... and we have to take it?"

The Human Rights Act 1998 was indeed implemented in order to be compatible with the convention rights conferred by the EU law. This was done since UK did not have a codified piece of legislation that explicitly confers human rights to its citizens which was deemed to be un-21st century. Leaving the EU will in no way affect this piece of legislation since human rights is one of the fundamental principle behind the uncodified constitution of UK so there will always be a piece of legislation in the UK that confers the same rights; and second of all, this legislation has no bearing in allowing "hateful" Muslims to stay in GB. Many terrorists are homegrown, meaning they are second or third generation who has full British citizenship so they cannot be deported regardless of their religious views. I must say that this particular statement has illustrated how ignorant you are about the law of UK

Prior to Johnson's withdrawal to the leadership race, he indicated how the Brexit strategy would favour remaining in the EEA agreements which would allow free movement of goods and people within EU. So the good people from the new "backwater" would still be allowed into the UK. I simply do not see GB opting out of the EEA agreement regardless of its EU membership, especially if Theresa May who is a part of the Remain campaign, is to become our next prime minister

I do not dispute that immigration causes a fair amount of adverse effects that significantly affects many British and I understand why many would favour greater boarder control but your summary was simply riddled with offensive stereotypes that can only be described as bigoted. Particularly your view that Islam is not compatible with Western culture...... Islam is the second largest religion in the UK according to the 2011 census and nearly 3 million UK citizens are Muslims. I believe what you are trying to say is that radicalism is not compatible with modern society that is more tolerant, which ironically is exact opposite of what you are trying to endorse

I must apologise for calling you out as an ignorant bigot but your views, or at least the way you presented them are textbook xenophobic. I do believe that there are many clear benefits for the UK to leave the EU and the recent referendum was a great exercise of democracy which is one of the most important values in the UK.
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-08, 4:19 am

weasel9x9Supporting Member
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Posts: 1866
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Could someone please expain to me how the UK joined the EU, but kept the Sterling, and never adopted the Euro? What were the arguements at the time of the decision?
It strikes me that by maintaining control of their currency, the UK was never completely "in"the EU.

Weasel

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Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-08, 4:42 am

Matri13
Posts: 177
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weasel9x9 wrote:
Could someone please expain to me how the UK joined the EU, but kept the Sterling, and never adopted the Euro? What were the arguements at the time of the decision?
It strikes me that by maintaining control of their currency, the UK was never completely "in"the EU.

Weasel


Well there are many countries that doesn't have euro in the eu. Like denmark sweden norway for example. I don't know if it was a requirement to have the eu in the countries. I think it was just to simplify the economy in the eu.
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-08, 7:03 am

archie321
Posts: 3
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The common currency (Euros) was signed off in the Maastricht Treaty 1992 and negotiations started around 1990. The polls in the UK showed back then that the majority of British citizens were in favour of keeping the sterling and they successfully negotiated an opt out from the Maastricht Treaty and hence kept the pound currency. Denmark was also given the choice to opt out due to the protocol when they joined the EU.

It is also worth noting that the UK received opt outs from the Schengen arrangement (abolishing boarder control within the EU) and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU. Both Leave and Remain campaigns have grossly exaggerated the effects EU currently has on the UK and potential backlash once it leaves. This is best illustrated by how the ECJ ruled that UK's blanket ban on prisoners' right to vote as unlawful in 2005 (Hirsch case) and the UK was simply allowed to ignore the ruling. And in 1992, the pound currency was at a new low due to UK's decision to opt out from single currency and it managed to recover once speculators find out that it is not that big of a deal after all. Hopefully, this will also be the case this time around.

I have only managed to learn something about the EU due to my degree in law and prior to that, I am on the same boat as many other Brits who are generally clueless about the EU. I find it absurd how some voters [from either side] would only bother to find out what the EU is after the referendum [google has indicated that since the referendum, most searched thing in the UK is: what the heck is the EU]. At the end of the day, the UK is still part of Europe and I sincerely believe that nothing much will actually change practically........ It was simply a political farce instigated by individual politicians in order to advance their personal agenda


Last edited by archie321 on 2016-07-08, 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-08, 7:09 am

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1538
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Not touching the political stuff with a 40-foot pole.

I just wanted to point out, Romania and Bulgaria still have their own currency as well. That's part of the reason that there are so many Romanian and Bulgarin girls working in Amsterdam. It's very attractive to them because not only are they making way more money than they could ever make back home, it's in a currency that is worth significantly more than theirs, so after the exchange rate, they're making about 30% or so extra money.
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2016-07-21, 5:37 am

zigg
Posts: 30
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I'm really hoping we keep free movement. If we don't, I think all that will happen is there will be a bit more paperwork to travel to Amsterdam, it will be a bit more expensive and you can't stay for more than 3 months at a time.

However, there are upsides to leaving. If we remained in the EU and Turkey joined, that would have been a disaster for immigration, which has been getting out of hand.
Re: Effects of Brexit
Posted: 2018-03-25, 6:20 pm

FlameDragon
Posts: 4
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So 20 months on, has anyone changed their opinions?

Have people seen the changes they expected or feared?
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