Just wondering if the RLD is anything like it used to be? I have heard the city has pretty much ruined the area with project 1012. What once were vibrant streets filled with RLD windows are now empty and abandoned.

It would be fair to say the RLD is not as vibrant as it used to be, but it's not all doom and gloom despite the title of threads such as It really feels like RLD is coming to its end: further closures

One of the aims of Project 1012 was to close down most of the "Sexyland area" windows and concentrate the RLD around the OzA canal and side streets. This hasn't happened fully but if you look on George's map you can see the areas marked "ex RLD windows" on streets such as Dolleb and Tromp. Golderbergersteeg (down the steps) has closed entirely and Bethlemsteeg only has 2 windows in use at the end. These streets are now a bit depressing compared to a few years back, but on the other hand there have been windows opening (or re-opening) along OzA and Stoofsteeg.

I would agree the city have made a hash of things in some ways, because the buildings in the Sexyland area are not particularly suited to other uses and the area looks more tacky and run-down than before! I could understand it if they wanted to make the Oudekerksplein more attractive by closing the windows surrounding the old church, but these have been untouched while windows in Bethlemsteeg, an alley that goes nowhere except into the "covered area" and a strip club, are closed down....

I think the main concern on the board is not the amount of windows left open (there are still quite a lot) but the fact that the best areas (in terms of good service) seem to have suffered most, while the windows are now more concentrated along OzA which has never had a reputation for good service.

Personally, the increase in the age limit from 18 to 21 has made a bigger difference to me than window closures, with a reduction in young, cute and petite girls. It's perhaps less common these days to get good service from unknown girls at €50 (although €50 is of course worth less and less as the years roll on), but I can still find some hotties and I have a handful of favourites that maintain my interest in the Amsterdam RLD. I think things will settle down with the RLD surviving along OzA and its side streets, I think it will still be worth a visit in years to come even if its best years are in the past.

I agree that the doom and gloom is overblown. I've said it before and I'll say it again: there are still lots of great girls and probably a bunch we haven't discovered on this site yet. Still a lot of fun to be had.

The thing I don't get, though, is closing the windows in the sexyland area. I really don't see what else they could do with those streets. They're too narrow and out of the way for retail or other businesses to thrive. Every time I go, half the new businesses there are gone. I kind of doubt the kamers are gone for good. I wouldn't be surprised at all if in a few years, they discover that this little experiment is a complete failure and businesses just can't stay open there and wind up selling the spaces back to window owners. I could be wrong, but with Warmoestraat just a street over, I don't see those little alleys doing very well as a shopping district.

I am quite sure that there was never any intention to make a profit from converting the old window rooms. Some have become joke "fashion" or"art" locations with next to zero sales of any product by young arty people. Certainly not capable of supporting a business at competitive rates. These rooms were given away for pennies just to get rid of the immoral sex industry (as the area was purported to be by the killjoy guy in a mayoral-like position). But he cleverly pretended that he was just saving sex slaves - something that those who have never been involved with a prostitute might find easy to believe. He may even believe it himself, though he appears to be extremely manipulative and devious.

I think it is telling that they are getting rid of the best areas with the most beautiful girls (the streets near the Oude Kirk around the old Sexy Land). Also the area most unlikely to be inhabited by sex slaves.

There are dangerous self-righteous do-gooders on the go in Amsterdam, utilising dishonest methods. There are parallels with fascism in the 30's.

Mayors change and the Dutch have always been pragmatic people. I doubt the current climate will be permanent.

Well i hope they're not going to change anything around de oude kerk. For me this is the best part of the rld. I had a shitload of good experiences with the black girls around there.

Sad that they've spent millions of Euros of taxpayer money to try and gentrify the area under the excuse of human trafficking. Even the artsy people the city moved in virtually rent free have moved out. Trafficking numbers in the RLD are roughly 3%, not the 75% some claim. With 30 some windows still to close that means still more women will lose their workplaces. "GeorgeAmsterdam" is an odd fellow. He says he supports sex workers rights but he supports project 1012. Very contradictory.

I think Maxx was right about the mayor. He's just grumpy because he needs to get laid.

I think this has been covered before. There are loads of alleys like Tromp, Goldeberger etc in Amsterdam. Most are gated and are private access to the rear of buildings. I suspect they will end up the same unless they are kept open for historic reasons. Also, the area is in a state of limbo between being a red light district and having normal successful businesses. Once all the windows have gone it will evolve into just another quaint area of Amsterdam. I don't see the size or layout of the buildings being an issues and Amsterdam is known for small hidden away shops and businesses. I am sure they will come and go like they do in any town or city. The area will be popular because of it's history and proximity to the remaining windows and OudeKerk. Guided tours are still likely to go through the area ("this used to be part of the RLD, etc") which would certainly help it thrive. Non of these things happen overnight and I remember one well known lady showing photos of a deserted Goldebergersteeg a few days after it had closed asking how it is an improvement, which is crazy.
Like everyone else I would love to see it stay open but that doesn't bias my opinion of what's happening.


It's not just about trafficking. It's to improve the general tone and reputation of the city center. The plan has been known for nearly 10 years so the girls have had ample opportunity to adapt and many actually started after the plans were announced. Windows are available daytime so none need to lose their workplaces. Even if a few lost their places that is life and no different to some company laying off staff. Objectively I think Project 1012 is perfectly justified but from my own selfish point of view I wish it wasn't taken place. I will repeat that I really wish it wasn't happening.

Ok, but objectively, then how are gated-off alleys an improvement over kamers? Kamers generate income, dead, inaccessible alleys don't. I really don't see the point in turning profitable streets into something useless.

Yes, girls can work daytime, but a lot of them won't because they don't get as many customers, especially now, since 1012 has been driving so many customers away.

Now, personally, I don't think the sexyland area closing will be as bad as people seem to think. The good girls working there aren't gonna just suddenly become rip-offs overnight because they have to work along OZA now. It will be a big shake-up for this site, having to figure out where all the favorite ladies are located now, but other than that, I don't think things will change that much.

The biggest problem, I think, will be for the girls. A lot of girls don't like working along OZA because it's very crowded, and the crowds tend to discourage potential customers. A lot of the girls who work in the sexyland area do so because it's more quiet and the people who go there tend to be looking for some action, rather than just coming to view the spectacle of De Wallen. I think it just sucks for the girls that this has to happen when there really doesn't seem any point to doing it beyond ideology.

The answer is Project 1012. You have to look at the whole picture.

I understand what project 1012 is, but nothing there actually adresses anything I asked. I'm aware that they want to gentrify the area, what I'm asking is why they think going about it in this way is going to be successful or productive. The things they say don't really make sense.

They just spin the project as reducing degeneration in the city centre, but then they move in these silly art boutiques that make no money and shut down after a few months. It's like saying we're going to reduce cancer in this patient by killing him. I suppose the assumption is that once all the windows in the area are gone, the area will change and businesses will be able to thrive there, but that doesn't really seem very likely. It's pretty obvious to me that this project is strictly an ideological one and will have nothing but negative consequences, economically, for the area.

Pretty sure these were just temporary to stop the area looking dead with empty windows.


Exactly.


It’s like saying we’re going to reduce cancer but the treatment is going to hurt. Once finished there’s a good chance you will be much better.

I still think of project 1012 as a massive clean up. We have already seen a big reduction in bridge trolls, general drug dealers, beggars and street scammers. The area is a magnet to drunken stag parties and people looking for paid sex and drugs. That reputation is worldwide and it’s hardly something the Dutch are proud of. Tolerance yes but not what it is now or has been. Read reviews by mainstream visitors. They talk about (perceived) exploitation, seediness, drug culture etc. Rarely do the say anything positive. I just think the authorities want to reign all this in and say “look, you can keep the RLD but it’s going to be smaller, more manageable, less crime and more vigilant to possible exploitation. It’s just a tiny part of out beautiful city”. They want all kinds of people to visit and go away with a positive view of the place. Not just a few people like us. I would guess that at least 90% of visitors are there to look, maybe have a beer and meal and move onto museums and windmills the next day. As long as there are still windows these people will continue to come and I will continue to cum.
This is how I interpret what’s going on. If it’s all lies by corrupt politicians then of course it is wrong but it makes too much sense to me especially since the project covers the whole centre and not just the RLD. In a way the area is too famous for it's own good. It has the whole world looking at it and judging it.
BTW there is news on the self run brothel thing- https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/32767 ... ess/#page1

The problem is that none of what they're doing makes sense. I'm in property management, this is what my family's been doing for 3 generations now. The way they're going about it is incredibly nonsensical. If this was a corporation and not a government, they'd be bankrupting themselves.

First off: it's very, very difficult to change the demographic of a neighborhood. This is basic business. You move into an area, you open up a business that suits the demographic of that area. It takes decades for a major demographic shift to occur, and there are big problems with the way De Wallen is being treated to facilitate that. Take Bethlemsteeg, for example. La Vie en Rose and La Vie en Proost are not closing. That means you will have a dead zone between OZA and Bethlemsteeg where there are no windows, but you will still have the drunken stag party types travelling through the area between OZA and Beth. This means that the sexyland area is still going to be rife with "seedy" types.

I don't buy the reduction in criminal types being a result of 1012. It likely has more to do with an increased police presence, increased surveillance, and the police precinct nearby. The problem is that the precinct has supposedly now been moved farther away and police presence has been visibly reduced, which makes no sense if you're so worried about criminals.

From a business standpoint, and this is coming from someone in the industry, the way they've gone about this will not facilitate change. It will facilitate stagnation. You will have a pit of nothingness between OZA and Bethlemsteeg. The smart thing to do would be to seek reputable investors to run window brothels in responsible and transparent way. Show the world that these girls work here willingly and their rights are being protected. Spreading anti-prostitution propaganda and labelling De Wallen as being a hotbed for criminality is shooting yourself in the foot if your goal is respectability.

The new brothel is a good start, but many girls don't want to run their own businesses, they want to just clock in, pay their rent, get their key, and go to work without having to deal with any of the other things involved in being a business owner. For the ones willing to take on the extra responsibility, it's a fine solution, but many don't want that.

I agree that leaving La Vie en Rose open seems a weird decision. I don't know the reason behind it though.

I came across the following article recently which makes interesting reading , particularly in respect of the ongoing funding of the 1012 proposals.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/pension-fun ... 1468499250

This is exactly the problem. The entire thing is weird. you're not going to change De Wallen or the perception that visitors have just by closing down the windows in the sexyland area. You'd have to either A. shut down the entire district and drive out prostitution and coffee shops entirely, or B. make more of an effort to educate people on how prostitution works there and ensure that's it's being run responsibly.

Both options are difficult, because if you just shut everything down, people will riot. Not only local mongerers, but also business owners who rely on tourism dollars. Educating people is difficult, because there are a lot of special interest groups (feminist groups and religious types, most notably), who have a vested interest in seeing prostitution go away and actively spread anti-prostitution propaganda.

You said it yourself, De Wallen is too famous for its own good. When people think of Amsterdam, it's usually the first thing they think of. It's iconic. Whenever people hear I've been to Amsterdam, they always ask me about the red light district. Whenever a movie takes place in Amsterdam, they always show the red light district. Shutting down De Wallen would be like New York getting rid of the Statue of Liberty and the Empire State Building. You can't change an area that iconic. It's been known for certain things for decades (if not centuries). It would be foolhardy to even try. You have a recognizable brand, something world famous that people travel from all around the world to see. The smart thing to do would be to take advantage of that.

I'm all for rejuvenating the area and removing undesirable elements, but shutting down windows won't accomplish that. If it was me, I'd be renovating the kamers so they didn't seem so seedy, putting up signs for tourists to read about how the window system works, ensuring the window owners were screening girls properly, and imposing fines on tour guides who fill people's head with nonsense about how the girls are all trafficked/have pimps. De Wallen is a destination, I would encourage that. Raise the tides, make things better for the owners, the tourists, the mongerers, and the girls. The current plan does precisely the opposite; they're screwing everyone. Tourists miss out on a unique place unlike anywhere else in the world, mongerers have to deal with a loss of privacy, degrade in quality of service, and number of girls, girls and window owners lose money, the city loses tax dollars, both being brought in and being spent on this silly project, and business owners in the area lose tourist dollars.

It's ludicrous that people support this project. They're being lied to and manipulated into supporting projects that run contrary to their own interests.

I am simply able to separate my own sexually driven selfish desires from what I think is right. I will leave things there.

Consider; we're already starting to see 1012 affect the area in negative ways.

1012 is a massively expensive project that went way over budget. So much so that the city council eventually cut funding for it, forcing the mayor to seek external investors. This is why fewer windows than originally planned are being shut down. Much of that money was a total waste. Take the new brothel project, for example. By and large, the girls don't want it or are indifferent to it. Very few girls have expressed interest in working there. The mayor frames the project as being safer and less exploitative because the previous brothel owners didn't do enough to protect the girls. However, the new brothel is being staffed by many people from offices that were shut down, and satisfaction rates amongst the girls with their current offices is very high. Also, it doesn't do anything to stop pimps, because they could still operate behind the scenes just as easily. So the mayor spent a massive amount of taxpayer money buying out and closing windows, then more money reopening windows, all to address a problem that doesn't exist and to completely fail to address problems that do.

This leads to the next issue: you may have noticed quite a few topics here regarding the safety of De Wallen. Well, part of it has to do with 1012. Due in part to 1012, the city of Amsterdam is in a bit of a financial crisis right now, as such, they've had to reduce police patrols in De Wallen. This, coupled with their inexplicable decision to move the police station halfway across the city, has led to an increase in "bad behavior" in the area. Furthermore, under 1012, many coffee shops were closed and bars and coffee shops must close earlier. As a result, there are crowds of drunk people with nothing to do being kicked out of the bars at 2:00, and they often wind up harassing the girls or acting like idiots and starting fights. It also encourages the drug dealers because there are people looking for drugs who can't get them because the coffee shops are closed.

It is not a coincidence that these things are being reported more now.

it's a shame really, as one of the only visible benefits for 1012 (for me at least) was the massive reduction in the shady characters operating in these areas. my first trip was in 2010 but over the last few years i've noticed amsterdam cleaning up in spades (i dread to think what it was like in the 80s and 90s haha), it's a shame that this improvement only came as a side effect of gentrification.