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Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-01-29, 7:41 pm

jimmy_nova
Posts: 130
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neurosynth wrote:
At this point I think the solution is to stick with the current rating system, but to add a bit more to the commentary. For example, I'd keep the high star rating for De Wallen, but add comments that BBBJ and DFK and LFK are not at all the default, and may even be difficult to find.

The problem with your "solution" is that I'll take one look at your rating for De Wallen (5 stars) and your rating for the De Singel (3 stars), and then I will immediately disregard your whole system as completely unreliable and useless, because those ratings bear absolutely zero reflection of my experiences, which in De Singel have been about ten times as good as in De Wallen on average.

The ideal way to do it would be to let everyone give ratings and take the average (e.g. something like TripAdvisor for RLD's). I'm also confident that De Wallen would not score 5 stars under such a system.

neurosynth wrote:
So if Amsterdam is no longer the benchmark, which RLD is?

I don't have enough experience of other RLD's to make any suggestions, but my personal benchmark would be the privehuises, especially the ones outside of Amsterdam. My best experiences in De Wallen are about comparable to my worst experiences at a privehuis.
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-01-29, 9:12 pm

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1135
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The problem is, Prives are not a window RLD. It’s apples and oranges. The point here, I think, seems to be to compare apples to apples. The fact is, in terms of just window brothel style RLDs, Amsterdam is still the gold standard. Granted, that may be because of lack of viable competition, but still.
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-01-29, 11:11 pm

jimmy_nova
Posts: 130
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grimnul wrote:
It’s apples and oranges.

I don't see why it is? Both come down to paying women for sexual services.

Even if my options are arbitrarily restricted (because reasons?), I'd still take my chances in any of the other RLD's I've visited (Duisburg, De Singel, Deventer, Antwerp) before taking another chance in De Wallen. The reason I mentioned prives is that I don't have enough experience with those RLD options to say with certainty that a typical encounter will be great. All I can say is that the experiences I've had in all of those RLD's have been far better than the best experiences I've had in De Wallen.

Anyway, I think discussing the best options for sex while limiting discussion to RLD's is like discussing the best options for food while limiting discussion to fast food chains.
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-01-29, 11:50 pm

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1135
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Well yes, fundamentally I agree. I’ve often likened De Wallen to fast food, myself. I think in this case, though, it’s more like we’re being asked specifically which fast food chain we like best, rather than restaurants in general. Also, as I’ve said before, most of us here are pretty experienced in this field and thus, De Wallen may not be the best option. I think for people who are less familiar, De Wallen may be the best option simply due to ease of accessibility and number/appearance of the women.
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-01-30, 1:02 am

neurosynthPower Kat XXX
Power Kat XXX
Posts: 2641
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Good feedback. Thanks!

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Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-01-30, 7:17 pm

jimmy_nova
Posts: 130
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grimnul wrote:
I think for people who are less familiar, De Wallen may be the best option simply due to ease of accessibility and number/appearance of the women.

I think this is just as subjective for newbies as it is for experienced punters. My very first encounter was with an independent escort, and I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. I personally would always recommend the more relaxed atmosphere of a privehuis or escort for someone looking for their first experience, especially if the person might be nervous about it.
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-01-30, 8:40 pm

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1135
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Well, the thing about escorts is it can really be just as much of a minefield, given all the fake agencies, bait and switch scams, etc. I think if someone was new and was doing their research, reading about all that shit might scare them off. Even if it didn’t, the process of booking an escort as a first-timer can be rather daunting.

Prives might be a good option, but they’re often not so accessible. If someone just wants to go out and get the first one out of their system, or just wants to try it once, the windows are as simple as it gets.
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-01-31, 6:30 pm

jimmy_nova
Posts: 130
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I've never dealt with an escort agency, so I can't comment on the reliability of those, but my encounters with independent escorts have generally been a lot better than my RLD encounters on average. Independent escort fees also tend to be favourable too.

Regarding research: Reading about bad experiences with any of the options could scare someone off; that problem isn't specific to escorts. And I always feel that it's better to do more research than less.

With regards to booking, I personally favour the certainty of knowing beforehand that I'm meeting a specific girl with whom I'm likely to have a good experience, rather than the uncertainty of a RLD girl simply not being available when I happen to be there. I've lost count of how many times I've searched for a specific RLD girl only to fail in finding her. I also never found a booking process that difficult, and I'm not exactly the most socially adept person either.

Finally, your argument for accessibility rests on the assumption that the person is already in Amsterdam. I don't know about you or anyone else here, but I don't live in Amsterdam. I can walk from my home to a prive, whereas De Wallen is going to involve at least one train (possibly more given how the NS service levels seem to be declining in recent years). Looking way back, my first session with that independent escort wasn't even in the Netherlands, and Amsterdam definitely wouldn't have been an option for me back then. My point is, the accessibility of the various options is pretty much entirely dependent on where you are.
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-01-31, 8:18 pm

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1135
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Oh, absolutely, but Amsterdam is one of the biggest tourist locations in the world, so a great number of people find themselves there incidentally. Of course if you’re not in Amsterdam and not planning to go to Amsterdam, De Wallen is not really a viable option. However, in many cases, it seems like first-timers often do choose Amsterdam as a venue, and I certainly feel that for ease of access, it would be a good choice for someone who’s unused to navigating the scene.

My point overall, really, is that De Wallen gets a ton of hate on this board with people often going as far as to say that it’s absolutely pointless to even go there now, and I simply disagree with that. Yes, you might get more value for your money elsewhere, yes, there are a decent number of horrible bitches in De Wallen who will leave you with blue balls and a lighter wallet, but the fact is, I’ve been on 9 long trips to Amsterdam now, and every single time I’ve managed to have a lot of fun in the windows. Does it compare to a good session with an escort? Of course not, but you also can’t throw some pants on, walk 10 minutes from your hotel room, and be fucking an escort instantly whenever you want.

I do understand a lot of the negative feelings towards the place, I really do, but I also think familiarity breeds contempt and that perhaps some people do judge De Wallen a bit unfairly for what it is. My experience has been that there are a lot of nice girls still in De Wallen and you can have a great time there. Even my very first trip ever before I’d found this site and I was just choosing girls at random based on appearance, I only really had one session I walked away from feeling really ripped off. Just don’t compare De Wallen to escorts, because that’s like comparing Febo to a Michelin-starred restaurant.

In this sense, I do believe that someone completely new to the scene, coming in with an uncolored opinion can and likely will have a very good time in De Wallen, barring a streak of bad luck choosing girls (which admittedly can happen).
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-02-01, 9:04 am

jimmy_nova
Posts: 130
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grimnul wrote:
Oh, absolutely, but Amsterdam is one of the biggest tourist locations in the world, so a great number of people find themselves there incidentally.

Oh, I don't disagree with this; I just don't think it should be a factor that affects De Wallen's rating as a sex attraction. A venue's rating should be based on the typical quality of the experiences and its value for money, not how easy it is (or might be) to get to it. Basing a rating on accessibility would be like a film critic giving a DVD film 5 stars, whilst only giving 4 stars to the same film on Blu-Ray because more people own DVD players than Blu-Ray players.

grimnul wrote:
Does it compare to a good session with an escort? Of course not, but you also can’t throw some pants on, walk 10 minutes from your hotel room, and be fucking an escort instantly whenever you want.

It doesn't compare to a good session at a prive in my experience either, even when I've turned up without a booking, which is my real problem. This is why my basis for comparison is privehuisen rather than escorts.

grimnul wrote:
My experience has been that there are a lot of nice girls still in De Wallen and you can have a great time there. Even my very first trip ever before I’d found this site and I was just choosing girls at random based on appearance, I only really had one session I walked away from feeling really ripped off.

Rip-offs aren't even my biggest issue with De Wallen; I actually don't think I've ever truly been ripped off in De Wallen. My issue is the mediocre levels of service for the relatively high cost. I can either spend €100 in De Wallen for up to 30 minutes of limited service, or I can spend that same €100 at a prive for 60 minutes, including DFK, GFE, and possibly other things that I wouldn't likely get in De Wallen. I'm not saying that the first option wouldn't be enjoyable, but why would I choose that over the second option?

grimnul wrote:
Just don’t compare De Wallen to escorts, because that’s like comparing Febo to a Michelin-starred restaurant.

Again, this is why my basis for comparison is prives rather than escorts. I think that's a much fairer comparison based on the similar levels of cost and accessibility.
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-02-01, 10:27 am

bobx
Posts: 117
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I'm fairly sure that the main critics of De Wallen (me included) are those of us who knew it from around 10-15 years ago and earlier.
If you knew it in the 80's and 90's it's almost impossible not to be dissapointed with the changes it's gone through.
Back then a much higher percentage of the girls were Dutch, very few up-sold on a regular basis, most gave really good service with BBBJs being the standard. I undersatnd that AIDs changed things and rightfully so, but the level of service on the whole was way higher than it's been for many years.
Even the changes in the last few years (Kamer closures, etc.) have made a difference.
I'm sure that if I visited for the first time now or a even a few years ago, I'd be more than happy with what I'd find for the most part.
But when you can compare it to earlier years, it's very difficult not be dissapointed.
Also, on the whole, the level of service (get what's agreed on, less up-sell, more options to choose from, etc.) is higher today in the Singel and De Pijp than it is in De Wallen, which after all is the theme of this thread.
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-02-01, 7:46 pm

jimmy_nova
Posts: 130
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Interesting point. My first time in De Wallen was around 15 years ago, and although it was better back then, I still found it somewhat disappointing. That may have more to do with the fact that I'd only visited a few excellent independent escorts prior to that, so the bar for service had already been set high. Nevertheless, I did have a few decent (but not outstanding) experiences back then.

I still occasionally indulge in De Singel, and I still wander around De Wallen whenever I'm in Amsterdam. But whenever I'm tempted in De Wallen, I just remind myself of A) what I could get for the same money in a prive, and B) the fact that I've never had a session in De Wallen that I felt was worth repeating (and that includes one session with a girl who was very highly regarded on this forum).
Re: Which, if any, RLDs are better than the De Wallen in Amsterdam?
Posted: 2018-02-01, 8:07 pm

grimnul Power Kat
Posts: 1135
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That’s a good point as well. I wasn’t around 10, 15, 20 years ago when De Wallen was supposedly much better, so I can’t comment on that. I’d imagine it would be disappointing comparatively, but I have no frame of reference. This also sort of gets into what I was talking about though, that someone who doesn’t have a frame of reference and is coming in with a clean slate will still likely enjoy themselves.

This is what makes it so subjective. Some people like the quick and dirty convenience of De Wallen, some people find the service too basic for their taste. Personally, I don’t really care about things like DFK. For me, it’s enough to just have some dirty sex with a really hot girl a lot of the time. Sometimes I want more, so I get an escort. I’m not familiar enough with the prive scene to comment there, but part of what keeps me away from that is the lack of geographical convenience and the relative lack of options compared to the windows. If things like DFK and having more GFE type of experiences are a must-have for you, then I certainly understand favoring prives over windows.

My point is simply that it seems to me like De Wallen does get underrated because of personal preference, bias, and nostalgia a lot of the time. I just think that while it has its issues, it’s nowhere near as bad as some people here make it out to be sometimes. Again, just my opinion.
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