Perhaps you did not know, but in reality I am a very sensitive guy. Although I have been touring the Wallen for many years since my divorce and I love the physical sex play, I have always been looking for a combination of beauty and GFE within one girl. And I think I found her. The problem is only: is it real or is it fake, is it just a theatre play that starts when you enter the kamer and stops when you go out? I know that the money only serves to rent a girlfriend for a limited time, but we have been taking pictures inside her kamer, have exchanged phone numbers,...and it would be nice if the door is not totally closed after my visit. Although I fear that the world inside the kamer is totally protected from the outside world because until now she has not answered my sms or letters. I've also brought her some gifts from my business trips and she really likes them and she is charmed when she gets them, but still I think that when I go out, she turns a switch in her head and deliberately puts me out of her mind. It all seems so contradictory, on one hand there is the impression that a friendship or even a relationship might have a chance, because I'm supposed to be a "special guy, sweet, nice,..." (her words) and there is a lot of very intimate kissing when we are together but on the other hand, when I'm gone and back home there is no response to all my signals. Is it mistrust, lack of need for a real friendship, part of a comedy...? I would like very much to extend the minutes inside her kamer to something more in the outside world and perhaps find a real gf in her. Massive response requested from all of you. Am I crazy or not? Is my mind playing tricks on me? I am now on a business trip and again thinking of buying her a present. Am I a poor sucker and is this again a story about a punter who thinks he'll get more than money can pay? Perhaps the only thing on my mind should be fucking, fucking, fucking,...but my emotions are playing a game inside my head. Hope to hear from all of you...muy importante!!! Same experiences????

In reply to what you say, I have been in the same situation.

I visited a girl and we really hit it off. She would say stuff like "I wish I could see you for 5 mins each day , just to say hello", and that she "really liked being with me and how she wished she "didn't have to take money off me". Once she said that "she had been thinking about me, and that if I came back it meant I liked her" and I "had a special place in her heart". She also asked for my number saying " I won't call you unless you like". I visited regularly for a few weeks and each time we where close, it was the real thing (at the time you like to think so). Always stayed much longer than I paid for, which made me think it was all true.

To set the scenario, I have been visiting the Dam for 6 years (including 2 years of living there) so I have visited a number of girls on a regular basis, so I judged this girl by all the others. I mean that with this girl there was everything (i.e she allowed things that other girls won't). I really thought that I "was in there". I must admit I was crazy about her, she had a great personality and she told me things that I don't think she told many people.

Anyways, to cut along story short she now is totally different and I have not changed. When I visit the time limit is strict and there is no closeness. She has become very jaded by the business. Her coldness is extreme compared to how she was. I have recently acted the way she treats me i.e like a client, but when I do this she gets upset. I really regret doing this, but at the time you think its for the best. At the end of the day you should prepare for this, and I did. But it is still is bitter pill to swallow.

I have two bits of advice.

The first comes from a working girl I visited for around five years. She told me "never trust anyone who works in the RLD" and "the girls who work in the RLD don't know what they want". I didn't want to take this advice to start with but now it seems she really knew what she was talking about.

The second advice is that no matter how we try to look at things and interpret things, remember how you met this girl. I know it is harsh, but the truth is we have walked through the RLD seen a particular girl and thought "I wouldn’t mind a bit of action there". In all honesty you aren't thinking "Hmmmm I expect she has a nice personality or I wonder what her hobbies are / job is". So when you try to strike up a relationship with the girl she will always have this in her head, i.e you came there for sex not because you liked "her". Trust me on this I have been there a number of times before. There maybe a minority of cases where a girl can forget this but I would say this is very very rare. Also remember how many clients visit her, how many clients treat her like you do. Does it not make good business sense to lead the client on. Its difficult, and jez I know, but you must leave your emotions outside the kamer door.

Treat the girl with all the respect she deserves and play the game, but remember when you leave the kamer what happened there stays there and just enjoy the memories. Otherwise you will end with it eating away at you. You will be thinking what if I had done this, what if I had said that, I wonder whats she doing now etc. Nothing you can do will change anything. We can keep spending more money for more time hoping things will turn out how we want. But it is highly unlikely that we will ever get the result we desire.

Hope this helps

Sorted

It's happened to me twice. The first time, I'd been seeing the girl for a few years, and a real friendship developed. Lots of talk about our families. She would come to my hotel. She inspired my latest screenplay, etc. After I felt comfortable enough, I poured my heart out to her, and she was great about it. She was kind, understanding and to her credit, she didn't tell me what she thought I wanted to hear which only made me want her more. I only asked one thing of her, that she let me know if she was leaving the business. She promised she would. I've been back three times since the last time I saw her, but I never saw or heard from her again.

I'm in the midst of the second time (They overlapped). This one does say the things I want to hear ie. "I love you, You make me crazy, etc." She even walked through the Wallen with me, holding hands after a session, and kissed me goodbye in public before going to visit a friend. She worked really hard to win me over, even calling me in New York from time to time to profess her love and tell me how much she missed me. I fought it based on the previous experience, but those phone calls broke me. I finally thought, maybe this time it's real. But my last visit, I found myself competing for time with another punter who was buying multiple hours at a time. She tried to reassure me, saying it was just for the money with him. That worked for about two seconds until I realized that she was still taking mine. At one point, I found myself waiting outside her kamer at the prearranged time, only to be kept waiting an extra half hour. He kamermate said to me through the door, "He's in love." I said, "I'm in love!" She said, "You too?" Then she counted to seven on her fingers. That was sobering.

The heart does what it wants, despite our best plans. I did find a silver lining. I'm glad can still feel something after my divorce, and even if it's not all I want, at least there are no messy breakups. It still hurts when it's over, but not as bad.

Come on guys, did you really fell for a hooker?!?!?!? You gave her money to suck your dick like she was doing with 20 guys a day and you fell in love with her.... heh, heh

Lets get serious, RLD is just to have fun. Right?

If you want to meet a girl and fall in love go to church that's where the nice girls are.

Guys, a sincere thanks, your stories are like a mirror of mine. I'm glad we can share this experience also on this board. Guys touring the RLD are supposed to be tough and macho and to a certain extend we are, but I'm glad there is also a place on this board to tell some other stories than the usual ones describing multiple positions, explosive ejaculations and gymnastic bodies. Don't understand me wrong, I like them, but sometimes the RLD also has another face, a face not many people are aware of....Hope to get some more reactions. Thanks AXXXTW for creating these possibilities, I think this site is unique in the world, certainly the fact that we can discuss openly like "a brotherhood of punters"

mrblunt, I think this board is open to all opinions and experiences. Human feelings cannot always be directed or forced. If you don't like our discussion, just try to respect it and go on to the next message on the board. Thanks

All sounds very familiar Windowshopper. She may like you alot, but she likes the money more. The more she tells you the things you want to hear, the more times you will go back and the more you will pay. If you are looking for more from her you are not going to get it. On the other hand if the sex is good and the GFE (note the "experience" part of it) is good why not just accept that's all your are going to get from it and enjoy every minute of it.
I use to go from one girl to the next (just wanted to fuck) until I met one girl where everything just clicked (6 months of bliss). Since then whenever I have a good experience with a girl I tend to stick with them. Sometimes it's difficult not to get sucked in, but sometimes you can have some really great times without all that emotional attachment. There is one girl that I have been seeing for nearly 2 years now and it just as good as the first time if not better. I know each time I see her I am going to get exactly what I want from her. I still get a hard-on walking into her kamer.

windowshopper's perceptions of what this board is supposed to be for---is in fact what it was created for.

additionally, any discussion pertaining to amsterdam is welcome. we are a bit distressed when people consider a subject "off-topic" if it doesnt pertain directly to sex and smokes---it's never been our intention to be limited to those subjects alone.

certain types of people and their accompanying behaviour that inhibits conversation and healthy discussion we can do without. we seem to be attracting a number of these people lately, unfortunately.

but if anyone has noticed, you won't find them posting here a second time.

cheers all.

Awwwright, axxxtw. I had some choice words for the derisive poster, but you said it all.

To Windowshopper,

I also share your feelings and experiences. I had been seeing a girl at FKK PHG club in Germany and we really got on and talked at lot of personal things. She told me she did not see clients outside the club and led a very seperate life between work and outside life. So guess what, I asked her out and she said yes. She said we would meet me on Easter Sunday and we would go for a walk and have lunch as she was alone. She agreed that if she changed her mind she would call me or email me . So I tell her I would change my flight and we would meet in her town on Easter Sunday and I would call her that morning. I changed my flights and booked a hotel in the town where she lived. As I left the club, I remember she whispered in my ear "I'll see you on Sunday".

Come two days later, I call her mobile and a message says "This phone number is currently unavailable, please call again later". I get the hotel receptionist to call the number and the same thing. I wait all day in this town and call the girls mobile about 50-60 times even text messaging. I feel like an absolute fuckwit. If the girl had called me and just said "It's not going to work out" the fine. I flew home the next day.

I had not heard from her. I had to go back to find an answer as it felt so painful to be stood up Two weeks later I went back to FKK PHG looking for the girl but not to get angry with her but just to ask for a simple explaination why she didn't contact me. The girl was not at the club as she was taking ill.

Was the GFE real or fake? I answer a question with a question! I would like not to think I had
also paid the girl to tell me what I wanted to hear. I wish I didn't ask her out on a date but you know you win some and you lose some.

The upside if this is that after finishing at FKK PHG and not finding the girl, I went to another FKK club in Germany, met a girl and asked her out on a date after her shift. She agreed and we spend the evening together. Were going to take things easy as friends and see how we get on on step at a time. Of course it twists me up inside when I know when this new girl is having sex with other guys in the club but that's the reality. I don't have a magic wand to wave and take her away from the sex work. (I did go to a tarot card reader who gave be very good vibes about this new girl though!)

I agree with the advice sorted_sam gave to you. As I met this new girl in a sex club and I told her I feel uncomfortable see her at the club and paying her for sex and would prefer not to see her at the club. She said she understood and it was my choice. I told her I wish we had met under different circumstances. Would we have met I a bar and started chatting? Probably not.

Well WindowShopper, I do feel similar feelings like you but whatever you do have both feet on the ground when you ask the next girl out.
Tony70

Real or fake? It's all depends on how you ask the question. It's like asking the same question whether a marriage is real or not. The answer is -- it was real for as long as it last, and when you dissolved it, it is not real. So it is not much different -- it's real while you are involved in it. It isn't when you are out of it. It's that simple!

I'm not trying to be rhetorical – it's just the reality of life. Everything is relative. It's all in our head. If we want it so bad, it is real. If we don't want it any more, it is unreal. So, whether it is real or not is really our mind game we play at our convenience.

As you already said, it feels so real in the kamer, but once you step out of it, you wonder if it is really real. The fact is: it IS real inside the kamer -- it wasn't your imagination (or hallucination), you had a great time and it felt good. What you are wondering is whether that feeling will continue beyond the kamer, that is.

Maybe the question is: Will this relationship last? Or how long will it last before you figure out it's not worth investing in it? Then maybe you can find some answers. Now, the question becomes different, because you are asking for a permanent relationship. That changes the whole ball game.

So the question becomes: Are you looking for a permanent relationship or are you looking for a good time now?

If your question is looking for a permanent partner, the answer is obvious: she is your only one at this time, but she has 100 others at the same time. Does she have any plans to change that? Figure that one out!

So if you change the question to: Are you looking for a good time now, independent of the future? Then, the answer speaks for itself -- what is the problem? What is the worry? If you are just having a good time, what is there to worry about whether it is real or not? Do you ask that question if it is real or fake when you negotiate that S&F at the door with any other girl?

I know I'm not giving you any answer by asking you more questions. But I want you to see it from a different light. The fact is you will believe what your mind tells you, and ignore all the signs that are telling you otherwise. That's why I bring up the point of how your mind can play tricks on you. Regardless of the situation, you will always come up with some explanations that will reassure yourself that you are doing the right thing -- that is just being human. You will try to figure her out anyway you can. But the fact is -- mind-reading is what get people into a mess in a relationship because you will always read it wrong -- how you read it is entirely your own interpretation, but not the reality.

What it boils down to is whether she tells you what you want to hear. If so, you are in it for a big surprise because you are setting yourself up for not wanting to hear the inevitable, and she is sparing your feeling because you are not ready to hear it.

If there is any indicator of whether it is real, it is her direct and frank way of telling you and showing you what you don't want to hear but it is honest and true. In other words, if she cares enough about you, she would let you know where things are at now, as is -- without any filters or sparing your feelings. That is being honest. If she only tells you want you want to hear, that is sugar-coating it. See the difference? But you have to be aware of your reactions too. When she told you the truth, and if you can't handle it and react to it, she will change her strategy not to be direct later. That's why I said before, you are the creator of your own reality. Beware of that.

Give you one other perspective, from her point of view: Imagine you are working in the kamer, and there are guys coming over, pouring their heart out on you. What do you do? Do you say no? Don't forget, this is your job, do you turn down a client?

Now, let's say there is something more than a casual relationship. At this point, what would you do? Do you stop everything and run away with the guy? Or would you be more cautious and play it safe by wait-and-see?

The fact is, you are probably not the first guy she encountered something like this, and if she runs away with every guy she falls in love with, she would be an air-head. In other words, if she runs away with you now with such a short encounter, wouldn't she run away with someone else too?

I know I'm not giving you any answers. And it is not fair to analyze/generalize her or assume whether her intention is real for her, because that's putting words into her mouth. What is important for your peace of mind is to sort out for yourself what you want to get out of this. If you are enjoying the time together, I don't see why there is a problem. It is as real as it can be. But if you are looking for something more, then that is a totally different story.

Thanks for sharing your experience with me and... lovebite for the many questions that made me questioning myself. Hope to get some more reactions on this great board

lovebite makes some interesting points. Especially regarding the girls' feelings. Just as in "real life," some people connect better than others. But as in real life, the reality of our personal circumstances affect those connections.

As I said, on my last trip to the Dam, I found myself competing for my girl's time with a punter who had seemingly limitless funds and free time. It led to what a friend called one of the most beautiful and romantic stories he'd ever heard (And this friend writes romantic comedies for a living).

I arrived at her kamer last month only to be told by her kamermate that she would be busy until 1am (It was 9 pm). I couldn't wait for 4 hours since I had just arrived that morning and was in need of a good night's sleep. So, I wandered around for awhile until I saw her curtain partially open. I hurried back, but the kamermate told me she had opened it because someone was knocking. She was a little miffed that I doubted her, so she invited me in to "prove it." While I waited in the hallway, she knocked on my girl's door. A moment later, she came out... topless. When she saw me, she began hugging and kissing me repeatedly. She seemed genuinely upset. She kept apologizing (No need because she didn't know I was coming). She asked if I could come back at 1, but I was too tired to hang out that long. I told her I'd see her the next night. She apologized again, followed by more kisses. I told her it was all right, at which point she looked at me sadly and said, "No, it's not all right." Then, she headed back to work looking very bummed.

Great story, right? But after the next night, when she told me how she wasn't into it anymore when she returned to the money guy after she saw me, I still found myself repeatedly waiting my turn by the canal. Even our prearranged time on my last night had to be pushed back by an hour and a half. Was she lying to me that first night? I don't think so. But the reality of her life took precedent over whatever she may have felt about seeing me. Anyway, that's how I choose to look at it.

I think that "the reality of her life took precedent over whatever she may have felt about seeing me" are very wise words. When you are with her, then you will have full priority, but when you're gone, her normal life will be number one and you will be pushed back to a lower place on the hitparade. I think these girls live from day to day and in the experience they are living at that moment. I think they are neither looking back nor looking into the future

I think a good thing to remember is that the women are human beings. Doing a job.

I would not try to be their boyfriend, or even anything close to it. You really have no idea who they are, what their life has been like, or anything else. All you know about them is what they will do for money.

They all make their living by providing or promising sex. The good ones also provide affection or a reasonable facsimile. The bad ones rip you off, make you feel like a rapist, or just rent you the use of their body like a living robot.

I think to try to have a so-called "real" relationship with a pro is setting yourself up for disappointment at best, and for getting majorly conned at worst.

Just my opinion, I may be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. :)

Reality aside, there is still a part of me that believes if you can win the heart of a hooker for real, then you've truly won something that is rarely given. That being said, I'm not going to turn my life upside down trying.

Winning the heart of a window girl?
Rare indeed, thus seemingly worth the whirl.
But in your quest for the uncommon remember this
Many are the things rarely given, including a fist.
Folk only punch each other infrequently
But the blow is no sweeter for that, seems to me.

A heart is a fine and honorable treasure
When given freely of value beyond measure
Window worker or not, love brings true pleasure.
But working customer service is just damn hard
Even more true for those in the Wallen's yard.
When sex is the service being sold
It's hard to believe what one is told.

The answer is actually easy to see
"Follow the money," she said to me.
If you're paying for her time it's clear
Her craft and job should explain all you hear.
On the other hand it's true
That she may just want to see you
In this case there can be no doubt
For you wallet will be in full droubt.

If she's seeing you for free,
Now you can wonder how honest she'll be be.
If she's seeing you for money,
Know it's all in the name of work, honey.

Swinginpoet

Bonnie and I have gone through what you seem to be going through. On our first trip to Amsterdam, Bonnie became very attached to one of the Tromp ladies. She is no longer working there. Bonnie would call her from the states on her birthday or at xmas.
On our second visit, they got closer and there was some jealousy on the part of the rld lady when she heard we saw other ladies in the Wallen. We had to hide this from her after she confronted us about it. It got to the point where Bonnie wanted to invite her to come for a visit at our home. Thankfully, that never happened. We both got too close to this lady and finally snapped out of it. We still miss her very much.
Then there was another lady that I got attached to. I believed all of her sob stories and whished I could do something for her. Luckily I had Bonnie to knock some sense into me. Since then, I have not let myself get attached to anyone else. It almost happened to both of us on this last trip. You know who I mean, Windowshopper. But we caught ourselves as soon as we left the kamer for the last time. I can truly understand what you are going through. If it makes you happy, bring her gifts. Just try and enjoy the time you have with her and then leave it at the door as you depart. If she is truly interested in you, she will see you outside of the kamer for no charge. If she wants money, then you know that it is all business. In that case, decide if you are ok with that. If not, stop seeing her. It will only break your heart.
Maybe its time to find some other ladies to visit in addition to your special one. I can recommend a few.
Email me if you want.
Good Luck, Clyde
jd0974@yahoo.com

When I started reading this topic, I couldn't believe my eyes. A guy falling for a window girl? It couldn't be. I had a similar experience when I was there in March. It was with a girl at Park 118. The prettiest, sweetest girl I have been with in a long time. I saw her twice. I got home and that's all I could do was think about her. I sent her a letter. That was a month ago. I don't expect to hear from her. I just hope she's there in Sept., when I go back, 'cause we had great sex, and she laughed at my skinny spliffs (I actually paid a barkeep at a coffeeshop to roll me joints like they smoke over there). It sure is nice to know that I'm not alone in my feelings for a working girl. The only excuse I can use for my feelings for this girl is that I'm in the midst of a divorce and I'm vulnerable.
lovebite, were you a philosophy major in college? I think so.
Me personally, I'm planning on buying this wonderful girl a few gifts for her; it's just like a tip. I was going to say that it might get me better service with her, but the service is excellent, so it's just something I want to do. One of the presents is an underwire (it's not a bra, so to speak, it's just a breast "holder"), and a pair of crotchless panties--that gift is kind of self-serving. I can't wait to see her in it. Oh my. But I digress.....
One has to keep in the back of one's head that 99.99999 percent of these women are in that business for one thing and one thing only--money. And I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I don't make $100 an hour, and I don't know many people who do. The only one I know that makes that kind of money is my f*#@ing lawyer. And a lot of the girls are sweet to you because they want return customers. But on the other hand, some of the girls are genuinely sweet.
My advice is to do what you feel like doing, and if you get your heart broken, oh well. That's what life is all about. Just smoke a big fatty, and go find yourself another cutie, pay your money, and screw like rabbits. Ha ha.......

Well I never, I began reading this post and thought I must have been doing something wrong for the last three years, then I read Mr Blunts reply and that dragged me back to reality. I have to agree with Mr Blunts thoughts, these girls are purely professional. In the past 23 years I have worked from time to time with prostitutes and I must confess I've found them fascinating people to observe and work with. They cover all of lifes personae, they have a multitude of reasons for being prostitutes from feeding a habit to fulfilling a taste of the high life. They are all masters of human awareness and can tune in very quickly as to how a client ticks. I think blokes are playing a dangerous game if they start falling for working girls, from my experience I seriously doubt if a prostitute can genuinely fall for a client.

They give you a window on their life that they choose to open, not the other way round.

Having said that, it was interesting reading yours and others experiences. I've always been able to leave my emotions in the hotel room when visiting kamers but reading your post makes you realize how fascinating and varied people are. You just never know what's around the corner!