I have tried this before on this board and gotten roundly slammed and flamed--so please spare me the lectures this time. This is all about consensual sex between adults, isn't it? And the truth is, heterosexual sex of any kind, with European or Western prostitutes has NOT been linked to AIDS risk, EVER, contrary to popular belief--I have reviewed the literaure extensively on this and work in the Biomedical field--so please get the facts right about this, with sources, etc, before you attempt to flame or slam, OK?

I am looking for fucking w/o a condom (known as BBFS in the US). I have indeed obtained it in the Netherlands--not in a RLD, but rather Priviehuis, on two occassions. But never with a window girl, not yet, anyway!

Does anyone have any good info on BBFS in the Netherlands? I know you might not want to post this publically on this board, or otherwise publically asssociate yourself with this discussion--but if you send me a private message and share some specific info in this regard, I will return the favor!

>>And the truth is, heterosexual sex of any kind, with European or Western prostitutes has NOT been linked to AIDS risk, EVER, contrary to popular belief--I have reviewed the literaure extensively on this and work in the Biomedical field--so please get the facts right about this, with sources, etc, before you attempt to flame or slam, OK? <<

This is quite simply nonsense. I don't know what "literature" you've reviewed, but it certainly doesn't represent mainstream medical concensus. Probably the same folks who say that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Or those enlightened souls who believe that sex with a virgin will cure their AIDS.

Now to answer your question. What you are asking for is rare to nonexistent in the Netherlands. Apparently, everyone else is not privy to the same biomedical research that you are. You, sir, are a nitwit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_pandemic

Thank you for your learned, well referenced flame, Bone Jock, I was expecting that.

Meanwhile, any useful info, via private message or otherwise, about specific girls in the Netherlands who provide condomless sex, would still be appreciated, and the favor returned.

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/rrbprostitute.htm

http://www.rethinking.org/aids/cite/index.html

www.duesberg.com

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/es/2004/02/102869.shtml

Merry Christmas!

The girls who will do bareback Sex, are either stupid, suicidal or junkie. Remember these girls fuck a thousand men each year, If they did not use a condom they would probably have an STD. Dont do it, you should find a normal girl to fuck, that is much more safer (IMHO).

Actually, you would have a better chance of finding a willing partner if you visit one of the clubs in Amsterdam or one of the dating sites. In other words, an amateur is more likely to do 'it'.

A close relative of mine hates condoms and is never lacking for girls willing to oblige. Of course, some would consider him suicidal for this activity but that is his choice.,

Great sources, uncovered. Real leaders in their field... not. It's your life. If you choose to believe a bunch of renegade pseudo-scientists, that's your business. Just do us a favor. If you do find girls who provide unprotected sex in the Wallen, post a report so the rest of us can avoid them. As Sarah (Italy) has told me many times. "I get asked for sex with no condom. Is not worth it to die. For what? Five minutes?" Smart girl.

I find some of the replies remarkable.

If you and the girl want to do it, then do it. I personally think you are mad, and your scientific claims nonsense, but thats your risk.

It does not affect me, because you won't infect the Girl (being unlikely to have aids yourself) and transmission rates being quite low. plus, if she is offering it herself then she is going to catch something anyway.

If she then shags me, I will have a condom on, so no problem.

You also have every right to ask without pricks flaming you. Even though I find it distasteful, the point is I also find other requests on the board distasteful, but I don't flame them. Each to his own.

Due to the replies I have been spurred on by the lifestyle facists to answer you. The answer is, YES, you can get it in the Red Light District and one other private institution I could name. I personally hate condoms and I LOVE sex without, but you would never catch me doing it with a prostitute uncovered.

Your choice. PM sent. Anyone else asks who or where, I won't reply.

>>And the truth is, heterosexual sex of any kind, with European or Western prostitutes has NOT been linked to AIDS risk, EVER, contrary to popular belief--I have reviewed the literaure extensively on this and work in the Biomedical field--so please get the facts right about this, with sources, etc, before you attempt to flame or slam, OK? <<

The above paragraph is an ordinary nonsense.

I decidely claim, on the basis of a genuine scientific research, that ANY sex WITHOUT condom with ANY prostitute is linked to an INCREASED risk of contracting HIV->AIDS and other STDs.

While I make no claims regarding freedom to choose a life-style in respect of various sexual practices (e.g. sex with a prostitute without condom), I do claim that unprotected sex is dangerous.

European prostitutes are less likely to be at equal or more risk to have AIDS then, say, prostitutes in Asia/Africa - precisely due to comparatively higher use of condoms among European prostitutes during their sexual practices.

>>Due to the replies I have been spurred on by the lifestyle facists to answer you.<<

I did not object to the question. I objected to his putting forth misinformation about unprotected sex as "the truth." He is free to believe and do whatever he wants, even if it flies in the face of the best scientific and medical evidence to the contrary. Ask anything, but when you post misinformation as fact, it crosses the line into the irresponsible. Anyone has a right to be ignorant. But willfull ignorance is another story. Believing theories that do not even represent a significant minority in the scientific community simply because it justifies your point of view is willfull ignorance, and posting it in a public forum as fact does a disservice to the poster and everyone who reads it.

Having lost a brother at the age of 43 to this terrible disease, I have more than a passing interest in this subject. I do not wish to see uncovered, or anyone else, go through what my brother did just because they want to feel good about their unsafe practices. You want to do it? Fine. Just don't try to sell the rest of us a bill of goods in the process.

I've seen this kind of thing on other forums. There is a certain type that is attracted to conspiracy theories and the virus myth proponents are very vehement.

Personally, I think they are in denial and may have tested positive or have reason to think they might if they plucked up the courage to get tested.

Whether it's a myth or not, who wants numerous men's jizz on them/in them? There are lot's of other diseases you can catch which don't get as much publicity but can still do a lot of harm.

prostitute? How about anyone as in ....

"ANY sex WITHOUT condom with ANYONE is linked to an INCREASED risk of contracting HIV-AIDS and other STDs"

In fact I would say the odds are probably higher with a single female who enjoys sex freely and often. If she does bareback with you, she probably does it with most.

Just like those dangerous lunatic Jehovas Witnesses and many other nuters I can metnion.

He can have unprotected sex if he wants and he can try and tell anybody he wants that its safe.

Thats the nature of free speech. Now, you being an American and all that...

If not your style though, just console yourself with the fact that those clever enough to listen to the right group and keep themselves clean...live! Those who don't well.....Mr. Darwin's theories will take care of them, won't they :)

Unless of course you are one of those wierdo creationalists from the Bible Belt. Then God can be the judge. As he no doubt wil be, very soon.

Well, complete bareback is coming back , don't look for the lookers , how is that one ....

If you go on the prowl in Singel - Bergstraat, don't go for the lookers , I give you a chance - succes not guaranteed. There are who give it at 50 .....
On Geldersekade, closest to the Wallen on OZA Northside, you will find streetwalkers, not too many , they are returning , most of African / Central American breed , there are fresh looking , they will give it - at 20 or 30 , you need a car.
In Bijlmermeer , specific places , streetwalkers, they will give it. (in the car)

If you are getting to know clubs in Rotterdam, many Thais , if they know you, or they like you (that's very very important), you'll have it by surprise. Pay 100 , they don´t like stoners.

Difficult to give very specific information, you got to build up your circuits , and you need time ....

Man, this is a double-edge'd discussion. There are 2 very good points that won't mesh easily:

1) Individual choice: Yes, if you want to go poking-about at peril to your health, then it's the Darwin Effect: when you're dead from something dumb, don't come running to us;

2) Responsibility to society: Ultimately, this whole thing works because we play safe, so others can too. It's like driving as fast as possible: sure, you'll be killed, but you're gonna take a handful with you.

From Wim's comments I can guess that the channels are there, but wisely they're in more off-campus affairs. Streetwalkers & junks always are signals to the danger-zone. In theory, those who crave a dip into the dark side probably won't be happy in the walled garden of the Wallen...or do they? Does this poison our own well?

The big question is, what do we owe to each other to keep these venues separate?

I wouldnt worry Woffie.

Its wuite possible there could be a HIV girl working at any time in the Wallen. You just don'tknow. It is extremely likely that HIV positive men get their sex in the Wallen so they dont infect partners. But thats all supposition.

If you are safe with her however, then you are safe. Full Stop. IV viral loads in saliva even are so low you likely wont get HIV. Hence BBBJ is looking safe so far.

However there is much discussion about that on the board. No point in repeating it.

Point is, I dont think they are hurting society. its personal choice how safe you are and what risk you take.

See you at Golden Times tomorrow for some BBBJ, DFK and covered sex in complete safety.

Regards

Mike

Theres a big debate in the Prague section of Jacksons board about this. Theres a club in prague called CHL/Dessert where the women apparently do bareback.

I know he asked about Amsterdam, but failing finding a suitable candidate there, he could czech out Prague.

>>Thats the nature of free speech. Now, you being an American and all that...

If not your style though, just console yourself with the fact that those clever enough to listen to the right group and keep themselves clean...live! Those who don't well.....Mr. Darwin's theories will take care of them, won't they :)

Unless of course you are one of those wierdo creationalists from the Bible Belt. Then God can be the judge. As he no doubt wil be, very soon.<<

The First Amendment of our Constitution gaurantees the right of free speech. But the Supreme Court did define limits. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater if there's no fire. Seems a bit harsh to leave people to the effects of Darwinism, even if they choose to believe inaccurate information. Especially when accurate information is so readily available. Call me a humanist.

Last I checked, New York wasn't part of the Bible Belt. In fact, if you asked someone from the Bible Belt, they'd probably tell you we're part of Sodom and Gomorah... Which is the way I like it. ;-)

the person who posted the original note is sadly misiniformed or wilfully and intentionally ignoring facts. It's not a question of flaming him to point out that there is universal understanding and agreement on these facts by medical experts worldwide. I have heard of no credible scientific opinion that refutes it.

It's totally understandable to dislike condoms. I hate that guys have to have them on. Kyle hates wearing them altogether. He absolutely won't - and he forgoes sex with other women (unless they are tested in ways that we can verify) rather than have to wear one. Crazy? Maybe - but i understand his position.

We have come up with what we think is the only conceivable way to have fun

when we are in Amsterdam - or anywhere where the guy cannot be properly tested - I always insist on a condom. no exceptions. I'm happy to lick the outside of the cock (underneath) bareback - but never the head (where there can be a release of pre-cum) But if the cock is going in my mouth or inside me - it's going to be covered or I won't play. And any girl that allows a stranger to put an uncovered cock inside her - particularly a guy who may have done that with other girls - is just asking for trouble.

what kyle and i do for max. fun back in the US is i look for guys who can be tested. to be fair to the guy - i have a test at the same time (even though I know i'm clean) just so that it is not a one-sided deal

we have a test. wait 14 days and have a second test. (the incubation period can now be detected to within 14 days after exposure.

we also look for girls for kyle and I to play with - who will go through the same deal - so that kyle can have his fun too (and I can have a little bi-fun!)

as long as the people being tested do not have unprotected sex within the 14 days between the two tests - then the second test is an absolute confirmation that the person is clean

is that a drag? absolutely. but it's the only way to be sure. that's why that's a hometown thing rather than a vacation thing.

and we do it because the pleasures of unprotected sex are sublime. I know the guy loves it - because it's much more fun without a condom. and i love it coz i get to taste fresh cum other than kyle's - and I can't tell you how much of a kick both kyle and i get out of me doing that.

and kyle can have his jollies with a girl that we both know is safe - and who knows that kyle and I are clean - and can enjoy a cumfest with us

anything else is prospectively suicide

Greta, you are truly a goddess... And a sensible one at that.

you are too kind bonejockey!

i would LOVE to be a goddess - but i'm not there yet! but i hope and think i'm reasonably sensible. i wanna be doing my slut thang for as long as i can get away with it... and that means being sensible....