Well, that's just my two cents, but tourism hasn't decreased since the last closure, which if i'm not wrong was much bigger than this one, can't see something happening because of this.

This news isn't spread all over at all neither, and the RLD, being the most famous one, has still enough fame and glory in its name to attract tourists.

The only one being damaged here are girls and of course long date client/visitors.

So yes, we are fucked.

@Eric
Not sure if renting price has increased since 2005 (the last closure), but as the price girls charge is still 50 euros i don't think so, they would have increased the going rate.
Plus, in the case that renting price had increased there are a lot of elements that could have led to it (inflaction, higher taxes, more profit...), don't think that closing down 20 windows out of about 400 could have a strong impact as closing much more hadn't.
Finally, Amsterdam is the place in the Netherlands where working girls can make the most money, hence my previous sentence on how i can't see the request for kamers decreasing...

Anyway, tomorrow i'm making my booking, let's see if i can fit two trips before May...

Anyone else is coming?

Max saw this coming, hence her move to Utrecht last year, and Jg, Kimmie had 1st refusal on her kamer, which she took up !!
Frankfurt is only an extra 45 mins on a plane FFS, so Mayor of Amsterdam, you have fucked up big time fella, hope you will be happy..............NOT
regards

Yes potlover, I'd say you're probably right, the last set of closures didn't really effect tourism. HOWEVER, this situation is different. Instead of a random group of 2 or 3 windows here or there being closed, it's a group of about 14 kamers in the heart of the "Sexyland" area (where, in my opinion, the best girls work)...yes, it may not be as many closures as the previous time, but it is the location and grouping of the number of closures in one place. It will surely lead to pressure being put on the other owners in the "Sexyland" area to take a deal of kamers elsewhere (if deals haven't been done already!?), which would mean the end of the "Sexyland" area totally! Added to that, there's the constant grumbling throughout the world's weed forums about coffeeshops closing their doors to tourists, plus the questionable stability of the Euro. All of these things, not just one or the other, will cause a decline of tourism, surely!?



Quite true, but more people know about this than you'd expect, it's just certain people will be involved in the system and therefore wouldn't speak about it, others will have found out and been asked not to tell anyone, etc.... For example, as said in my other reply to this thread, I knew a while back but was told not to say anything, I certainly knew about at least 6 windows closing (including Kim's old one) back in July '11, if not before.....thing is, with all things like this, until it happens, you don't know whether it's 100% true, but I'm guessing by others confirming what they know in this thread - and others I've spoken to about it - it's true, and happening! :-(



True again, and tourists will still go to look at the girls on OZA, but that won't make the revenue that the council is used to. I'm not saying all the girls pay tax, etc...but some do, what I am saying is those tourists coming for a look will do just that, visit OZA - have a look - carry on with their day.....whereas "proper" customers will spend their day in and around De Wallen and spend money throughout the area......and if the "good" girls retire in preference to working elsewhere, then the "proper" customers will choose to go elsewhere, in my opinion. So, I suppose what I'm saying is that there are 2 types of tourists - the ones who spend money, and the ones who look and leave the area.



Quite a generalisation really......I can assure you that there are girls who would claim business is better elsewhere, and even though sessions are at a lower price, so is the kamer rental, and due to being in smaller RLD's - there is less competition, etc.... so if you get a good reputation, you can rake the money in. Requests/availibility of kamers is very strange, I've learnt a bit over the years I've been going to the Dam. I've been there when I've known several girls who haven't been able to get kamers anywhere in De Wallen, and been told that all kamers are fully booked, etc.... yet, a fair number were empty all night.....so availibility and demand is controlled by the kamer owners.



(check your pm's my potter friend! ;-) )

Max is a clever girl, isn't she! ;-) Get a good client base before more girls from De Wallen decide to try moving up to Utrecht! ;-) ha ha!
Yeah, during one of my brief cigarette break/chat with Kim before she moved kamers, she said that she was probably going to take it permanently since Max had moved, but she also said about the closures back then too....so she'd have been silly to turn down a kamer that's not due to close down, with a bigger bed, bigger room, etc.... lol!



Funnily enough Bluto said something very similar to me the other day. Sounds like Frankfurt will be the place to be!! I may need to take a closer look at Frankfurt.

Peace

So just to summarise, this is 100 per cent happening?

And it is the direct closure of the majority of kamers around the sexyland area, as the council have bought them out from private landlords?

This is major news.

Horrifc news.

I will return to Amsterdam, but it will take a major chunk of the enjoyment and hustle and bustle of the RLD without the noise and atmosphere of the sexyland area there.

What are the plans for the area does anyody know?

As for going elsewhere, aslong as they're still selling weed I'll always go to Amsterdam but without the RLD I don't know how many more trips it will take before the novelty wears off...

When exactly those first windows will be closed? Cause I'll be there right on May 1st and hope I'll find them still occupied with real girls and not fashion dolls. Never been in Frankfurt,just read some about it. How would be Amsterdam without Sexyland area and cofeeshops comparing with Frankfurt?

Well, first of all we still have to see how many girls actually decide to leave, how many good providers decide to keep working in another window and finally what will be the overall offer on OZA, then everyone will take his conclusion.

Of course, IF a total closure of the area happens!
I'm just talking about what we know for now, which i can't see as something too dramatic.

For years i've been reading and writing so much elsewhere about coffee shops closing down and learnt the lesson, untill i don't see it with my eyes (both CS and RLD closing) i'll be coming back.

But while the closure of CS is something that has been discussed for years, publicized and planned without any real consequence till this year, what we are talking about now had been planned since 2007 with an opinable yet concrete project behind it.


I'm looking at this from the point of view of a foreigner, the one of a local may be different.
But from the amount of business perspective (and only from this, you are totally right on pressure to owners and the historical/environmental side of this area) i really can't see how closing down the sexyland can have such a deep economical impact for workers, i don't think that all customers, not even repeating ones, are aware of the difference between the areas (if there's one, rip off may happen everywhere after all) and proper customers, or in other words guys that look for mainly if not only paid sex, are a minority, tend to prefer other destinations (let's say that, for the p4p scene Amsterdam is quite bad actually) and are not so different than occasional ones, as statistically the majority of them goes for the standard 50 euros session anyway.

IF the RLD isn't going to attract more new clients than the ones that would stop coming back is something we can't predict, as girls can't, and IF some girls decide to leave we can't know that even better providers are not taking their places.

I'm not saying that it will be the same for us clients, just as a working girl i wouldn't have an economical reason to leave till i don't see how everything changes.

As for the council, well, i don't think they are expecting to see incomes increase after having closed down windows, but as you wrote, we can't know that every single girl pay taxes regularly and so how much those revenues are influent for them...



Fair enough, of course only a little part of the milions of tourists coming ends up sessioning, but to them add locals and even a few regulars that visit more than once a year, where else could this happen?
Of course there are a lot of girls changing location, from and to Amsterdam, everyone looking for the best fitting place, but a girl working there can give an average service and still make some good money, in a small RLD she wouldn't last to the following day (at least ideally, i've been considering my destinations for this year, done some research and as i've written above rip off happen everywhere, RLD to FKK) .
Don't know the rental price in other places, but i think it's obvious that for the same number of sessions the gain is much higher in Amsterdam...



Are you talking about the cities or the mongering scene?
In the first case i would choose Amsterdam anyway.

Hi everyone,
just to add my info to the board - I spent some time with Melissa (tromp 3-2 I thought but may have been 3-3) back in November and when we chatted she also told me that her kammer and most in that area would be closing in March; she said that some girls were taking/looking for other kammers on the cannal or the other side of it, but many, including her, would probably change profession.
A trip report - our first - will follow very soon.
Bear
Ps May or may not be of interest to this thread, but as it is located in that rough area, thought you may like to know that when we were there in November, Venus cinema was closed and looked closed down for good to us; inside we could see bare walls and it looked like it had been gutted; Sexyland was open - but only for what appeared to be builders going in and coming out - and inside this too was gutted. Bad news for the area, and those who enjoy it (or are employed there), indeed.

I read this thread last night and have been depressed since. Worst news I heard. I am planning a trip before March but fear it might be one of the last.

So much for a happy new year then! If they want to close any windows, they should just close the whole of OZA! Im sure Agnieska can be squeezed in somewhere around sexyland :)

This made me book a trip at the end of feb, cant afford it but it just has to be done now.

So Veronika, Alex, Kim, Simona, Nicole!! here i cuuuum!! :)

Hi guys first of all yes we pay more for the rent of our room from 110 euro aroun 2005 now 150!!! But only for the girls at night!? But business is not the sMe as than. Worse!!! And how can we ask for more money for service as a lot of men already complaining to pay 50 thats why we dont change our prices. And office 52 is closing 14 windows in may. After the latinas are next about 8/10 windows than the rest of the sint anna area is next. I know that the office i work for has a licence till end of this year. Xxx

So does this mean by the end of the year every window around there will be closed!!?

Looks like the world really is going to end in 2012 then! ( my world anyway ;) )

I agree that there are two types of customers, but us "proper" customers are such a small minority that to the Council we don't really matter politically or economically.

However the other type of tourist might not spend much money in the Wallen but visiting the world-famous RLD is part of the draw that initially gets them to come to Amsterdam and spend their tourist cash all over the city. For them, a stroll up and down OZA trying to sneak a picture of a hooker or maybe go into a sex shop or a show for the more adventurous is all they need. Therefore for the main tourist group the closure of the Sexyland area won't make any difference is unlikely to have any significant impact on Amsterdam tourist trade.

bb69

Unfortunately I think bb69 is right. This will have less of an impact on overall tourism than most here think.

I would like to ask anyone who lives in AMS or will be there soon to please give updates on the impending kamer closings.
I'm sure i speak for all of us that this is a big letdown and any info on what happens would be appreciated.
It would be nice to know where the girls move to assuming they don't quit.
thanks.

[ Burn out - I must say I'm burnt out from dealing with shit like this. There was a thread two places below this one regarding the same exact topic but, somehow, you felt your inquiry warranted a separate thread?!? Your post has now been merged into the existing thread. --admin ]

I think that Slick has pretty much answered that earlier in the thread, but for ease of reference. Here it is again -



I'm sure come May time, there will be various updates on leavers and movers.

bb69

Thanks BillyBob
you never know the accuracy of this info or if plans fall through (which would be nice of that meant none of them closed.) so it would be nice to get an update as things happen.
thanks goodness for this site.
i could only imagine showing up in amsterdam, heading over to sexy land and thinking : WTF?!?!?!
regards.
burn out

The general outline of the plans for the RLD (part of the "project 1012" already mentioned) were put forward in this council brochure from ~2008 http://www.amsterdam.nl/publish/pages/396758/heart_of_amsterdam.pdf It's old news and is not very specific, but it helps to make sense of the council's overall plan. If anyone has anything similar which is more up to date, I would be interested to see it.

The "Sexyland Area" presumably falls under the plans for the Oudekerksplein:



The overall plan for the RLD is summarised like this:



So, it seems the general plan is/was to close windows around sexyland and concentrate them along OzA and its side-streets (such as Oude Kennisteeg, Stoofsteeg). This fits in with the map on page 9 of the PDF which shows an "adventurous, but humanised" RLD concentrated along OzA, and the specific window closures listed in this thread also fit in with that plan.

**

When thinking about the RLD and its place in the city centre, I remember the guy walking past the old church who asked me for directions to the red light district. I suspect the average tourist would be quite happy if the windows were concentrated around OzA; it's quite easy to miss the windows in the sexyland area altogether unless you know they are there. I suspect the council want to gentrify the area along OzV and around the Old Church and have OzA as the main RLD tourist destination.

I think if this plan was done well, it might actually be an improvement. Personally, although the girls in the sexyland area tend to be the better ones, the actual streets there don't hold that much attraction to me. If the RLD wasn't already there, if the best girls didn't work there, would it seem such a great area? Walking down Trompettersteeg is a pain. The streets such as Dolleb are narrow and often crowded and while it may "add to the atmosphere" it can be very tiresome trying to walk around. If the top-quality girls were filling the windows along and around OzA, that area would hold much more appeal. If the council re-open windows on OzA (and Stoofsteeg e.t.c) as they close windows around sexyland, the RLD would seem much more lively. At the moment, the RLD is rather spread out, and as windows thin-out it loses atmosphere.

If they can create a busy RLD based off OzA it might be pretty good. Do I trust them to do it? Not really. If they reduce the size of the RLD *but* re-open and keep open all the windows on and around OzA, it could be good. If they both reduce the size of the RLD, and steadily increase the "fashion windows" on the remaining streets, they will kill the atmosphere. I think it will be a tipping point for the RLD - if the council have any sense they will maintain a small but thriving RLD that is large enough and busy enough to please both casual tourists, mongerers and the girls that work there. I hope the quality girls will migrate across to new windows as sexyland kamers close; walking down an OzA chock-full of windows with nice girls in them would be very pleasant. I can dream....

Aldebran, I totally agree with you that the girls in the Sexyland area tend to be the "better" ones in De Wallen, and that if the girls weren't in those streets most people wouldn't have any reason or need to walk through there. And, of course, OZA would be a far more enticing area if the "better" girls from Sexyland moved to the rooms that re-opened around there. However, from what I've gathered from conversations with several girls, and also from discussions I've had with friends who know other girls that I don't, it seems like the "better" girls are going to look to move to different cities, go home and work, try other avenues of work, etc....but not move to OZA.

Peace

And even if some do move I doubt it will be in a coordinated way so they are all near each other and location is still a good predictor of quality.

Aldebran,
I would say that personally it depends. I like to walk with dozen of people walking around me, all in a row, when I can feel their own movements, their own walk. I really have the feeling at the moment that people are not afraid to merge. It's like living a little pilgrimage, especially for the first timers when walking down Trompetterstteeg the first time and seeing what kind of gold is hidden behind those windows :-)

The feeling of being so close to the girls, and do not know sometimes where to look as they are so many of them on the left and right it's funny and it's such a tease ! Particularly when the night has falling down, but not only. It's interesting to see the windows when they open in the morning at 10.am, first mongerers down here : the tiny street is more calm than ever and you can stay for a moment just watching the girls inside preparing themselves and waving you a nice "Hello". When the weather is mild it's even better. On one hand, the fact that Trompettersteeg is such a tiny street can appear really embarassing, much of the time during week-end (Fridays and Saturdays night are the most crowdy), you can easily spend five minutes just to walk from the canal start to the end reaching Sexy Land areas at Bethlemsteeg. But on the other hand, it's diving in the middle of the action, right in the middle of the night, where the sounds, the voices and the senses are in alert.

The 1012 project is a little bit scary. It tends to moralize much more sex and drugs in De Wallen. To set up much more boundaries and to restrict the scene itself : far less windows and more arts activities in the corner of the most well-known streets. I mean it's how I feel it. But I would not be sad if the girls find another locations where you can easily spot and find them. Not sure if it would be the case for most of the superstars who have nothing else to prove to make sure that their status and reputation are not stolen. Ouderkekplein could be very down on business in that way, and not so much attractive now with the closing down. Nights could become less energetic, vivid and noisy.





Where would be the kamers on OZA if some of them are reopening early in May this year ?
Do you have ideas ? Is it about the street closed a few years ago ?
Is that suppose to mean that Bethlemsteeg alley and Sint Annenstraat as well will be closed ?