I'm not sure how many of you are aware of this, but there's another issue beside the virus to be concerned about that could potentially affect the future state of play.

Three days ago, the Dutch government had a discussion in the Tweede Kamer regarding the proposal to ban the buying of sex in the Netherlands, on the basis of a petition signed by 40,000 bigots who want to control the freedoms of consenting adults. It's fairly transparent that their issue is not a rational one, but a "moral"/religious one that they try to cover up with the usual half-truths and fallacious arguments against the industry.

Fortunately the conclusion of the discussion seems to be that nothing will be changing any time soon, as only the Christian parties supported the proposal, whereas the other parties made good arguments against it on the basis of actual evidence and rationality.

However, it seems that the group who created this petition are unlikely to give up any time soon, so this is likely to be an issue that will continue to be raised for the foreseeable future.

I was aware that the petition had been signed by over 40,000 people around 18 months ago (the 'exxpose' movement), so it's taken a while for the government to discuss it.

This is something that doesn't concern me in the slightest. I'll admit it is a nuisance factor and I'd obviously prefer it if this type of petition didn't exist, but we are talking about a seriously radical proposal here - the complete banning of buying sex! I know France has made it illegal fairly recently, but it would be a lot more radical for the Netherlands to do it, for obvious reasons.

I've seen several reports that lots of politicians are actually pushing freedom of rights for women - so if a woman wants to sell her body it's her choice. Obviously the one caveat to that is trafficking; if there was more substantive evidence in future years that trafficking is a major problem, the situation could change but I really struggle to see that it would. ‘Exxpose' are claiming that trafficking is a major problem now, but the government either don't buy that or they believe the advantages of prostitution being legal far outweigh the disadvantages.

We've had lots of discussion here before on the Mayor's frankly absurd proposals to close the RLD and move it to a more concentrated industrial area away from the City Centre, and in a behind closed doors setting rather than the current open format. I don't buy the idea that tourism wouldn't suffer if they did that - Amsterdam and the RLD are world famous! A complete ban on buying sex in the Netherlands would surely be more than a small problem for the economy, particularly with the deflating effect of Covid-19 potentially lasting for several years. I'd be amazed if anything changes in the next few years.

I’m afraid that your assumption that the RLD is a big tourist draw is false. Most tourists are seeing the vast cultural offerings that Amsterdam has to offer. The RLD is a sideshow. It would be missed by us but not by the many.

That's not how I understand it. I recall reading a few years ago that the RLD was the 2nd most popular tourist attraction of Amsterdam after the Rijksmuseum.

100%. In fact I saw some research last year stating exactly the same.

As well as those who go primarily for the RLD, I’m sure there would also be more than a small drop in visits from the people for whom the RLD isn’t the primary purpose.

Amsterdam is synonymous with the RLD, surely drawing significantly more tourists than us clientele who partake. I would have to see the results of a study on tourism numbers, following the closure, before I could believe there is a negligible impact.

One thing I would say is there have been reports the government were actively looking to reduce tourism. This is contradictory to our belief that the government wouldn’t remove the RLD or even prostitution altogether due to negative impact on the economy. Apparently they are worried about excessive overcrowding and pressure on transport systems, and forecasts for huge predicted increases in tourism over the next few years which they couldn’t cope with. If that is the case, closing the RLD would help. However these reports were all in a pre-Covid world.

People will come to Amsterdam to specifically see the Rijksmuseum; whereas the vast majority who visit the RLD do so as part of another trip. It’s a side trip, but not the primary reason to visit Amsterdam.

Sure, but the people who come to see the Rijksmuseum typically come once. They come, they see the museums, Anne Frank House, etc., then they leave and don’t come back. The people who come for the RLD and the weed come back constantly. Might be fewer people coming specifically to party, but I would be very surprised if they weren’t spending significantly more over time than the tourists who just come for the museums and history. Europe is full of museums and history, no reason to keep coming back to the same city.

I disagree, and I think you underestimate the tourist appeal of the RLD. De Wallen is part of the overall atmosphere that contributes to the reason that many people visit Amsterdam, even for many who have zero intention of ever paying for sex.

We take it for granted because we've been visiting for years, but for those who've never seen it before, De Wallen is an incredibly unique thing that you can't really find anywhere else that people want to see (OTOH, the Rijkmuseum isn't that far removed from any other major museum in any other big city, e.g. the Vatican).

Hi Guys.

I agree with Mr Grimnul.

I have been to Ams 16 times, bought a lot of sex, beers and food, but only been to Rijksmuseum once.

I rest my case.

//Tom.

I never been anne frank house or a museum.
In fact my first few visits i never left the rld.
If the close rld bye bye ams.

okok, so.. , what IS the current state of play?

- would you say the window girls are back as usual - or many empty windows?
- Ive heard that masks are not needed anymore in the RLD area?
- are the rates as before or cheaper / more expensive?

anyone been there lately? any reviews / updates?
thanks!

I was there at the end of July, and from what I saw the windows were around 75% full compared to pre-lockdown. So certainly empty windows but a good number occupied. In reality, there were a number of empty windows even before Covid-19, so the actual number of empty windows was probably around 50%.

Masks were not needed around the RLD at the end of July, but I understand they are now required around De Wallen.

Rates were identical in the RLD, although I know some of the Privehuis's had increased rates.

The current state of play is:

No masks required.

Hardly any tourists around.

Fewer girls in the window than before COVID but enough still there to make it interesting.

Tourism in Amsterdam would still be huge without the RLD. A lot of the discussion about getting rid of it is just thinly veiled disdain towards English chavs, which is who most people really mean they're talking about "tourists". The vast majority of tourists who come here are respectful and interested in the history and culture, not just here for smoking dope and looking at girls in the windows.

I’m good with fewer ‘chavs’ in the city. They are a drag and an annoyance for most. Brexit will have some positive outcomes.

The RLD occupies a bit of time for me but in a city with around 200 museums and other cultural attractions there is so much more to see, but everyone has their tastes and some have shorter refractory periods than I do. Plus Amsterdam is perhaps one of the most walkable cities in the world and I love going for a ramble, often racking up 15 to 20 km per day.

The recent spike in the Netherlands is almost at it’s highest ever daily new cases.
I doubt a trip will be possible anytime soon.
I was hoping to get a couple of trips in before my regular Christmas booking.
That Christmas trip now looks in jeopardy.

AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Woldometer Coronavirus Netherlands

Any insight to what’s driving these numbers?
An increase in testing could be raising it artificially.
Certainly in the UK, I see more and more youngsters starting to flout the rules wrt face coverings, mass gatherings, etc.

‘An increase in testing could be raising it artificially.’ Are you actually serious? I’m face palming for you right now. Smh. Please don’t bring that kind of nonsense to this forum.

I have no idea what the testing situation in the Netherlands is, do you?
I know it’s a bullshit argument in the UK and wishful thinking on my part.
I’ll bring whatever argument I fucking like.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Obviously you should avoid being in a poorly ventilated room with a lot of people, but there is also an increase in testing in every European country because after 6 long months governments have now figured out how to test more. It's not enough to just buy tests. You also need people who administer the tests, people who analyse the tests, people who inform the tested people about being positive or negative, and so on...

This is entirely unacceptable.

Don't try to play moderator.

Don't abuse other members for daring to hold a different view.

Unfortunately, the discussion surrounding the coronavirus/Wuhan flu/Chinese AIDS/whatever has become politicized to the point that no rational discussion is possible on a forum like this. With all the lies floating around and, still, an actual lack of understanding of many aspects of the disease, there is no clear "right answer" here. Pretending otherwise just makes you look like a jerk.

Thanks Bluto.
I certainly don’t want another COVID argument.
That’s everywhere else you go online.

Unfortunately, what limited access I have to Dutch news, acknowledges the new spike, but there is little to no discussion as to what is causing it.
Selfishly, I care to the extent that it affects the activities of this forum.
How well or otherwise the Dutch are controlling the COVID outbreak, determines my ability to visit.
If there is no local insight to share, I’ll just watch and wait.