In the past few years, while in Amsterdam, I've had many non-Americans want to engage me in discussions about George W and American policy. I personally don't like him or his policies. I believe he is the worst president in my lifetime. I don't, however, like to bad mouth my president(yes he is my president, even though I'm not happy about it) when I am on foreign soil. To me it's like discussing family matters outside of home(I know my sister is a slut, I just don't want to discuss it with my barber).

Does anyone out there feel the same way? What's a polite way to tell someone it's not a subject for discussion?

Peace,

Mojo

You feel it's a question of manners (when people want to discuss politics with you just because you're an american) and at the same time feel forced to defend him when away abroad. I think you're wrong when you say that you feel for defending the guy, you don't need nationalism nor pride! It's no wonder that this man upsets people regarding what he does, not only to poor people in poor countries, but also to americans. Tax-cuts for the rich, anti-abortion policies, intelligent design propaganda and so forth. You have to live with the discussions as long as he's around, man!

While I've spent a lot of time in the Netherlands, I've spent even more time in France. One thing I've noticed about the French and I think Europeans in general is that the US axiom, "never discuss religiion or politics" doesn't apply. I was recently at a wedding outside of Paris. I talked to dozens of people that night. A lot of people wanted to talk about Bush. What was very interesting was that not a single person asked me the question that's the first one you get from Americans, "So what do you do for a living?". My understanding is that that's viewed as somewhat impolite as it's tantamount to asking how much money you make. If you're uncomfortable talking about our idiot President,I'm sure that a simple, "you know I really don't want to talk about him" would suffice. My personal feeling is that it's important for Americans traveling abroad to let their feelings about Bush be known. I would hate to think that our European friends think that he and his policies are representative of the country as a whole.

Hey Mojo,

After many visits I have been quite unfortunate to be in Amsterdam during the height of many Anit Bush demonstrations. When people start asking me about Bush,,, my favorite retort is " Yeah,,,, I like Bush,,, the kind in the Window's" They laugh and we go back to talking about girls, weed, beer, and occasionally things like Disneyland and American Women.

Last spring I was in the Concertgebow on the 60th Anniversary of the liberation of Europe,, sitting next to a older couple from Alkmaar.. I asked them a question about the concert and the man immediately asked if I was American,, I said yes and he broke down crying,, thanking me for liberating him as a Dutch POW... That was one of the most touching experiences I have had in Europe,, even better than some of the touching I have had in the Wallen:-)

In Alkmaar,, I have befriended many of the local patrons of the Mouse,, every once in a while a local will start engaging me about American politics,, ecspecially Bush,, They all come to my side and tell the poor fools that I am here to drink, fuck and smoke,,thats it!!


Regards,

420,, aka Lanrac,,aka James

No Mojo, I don't feel the same way as you. I feel it's important to talk and show people from other places that not all Americans, think like YOUR president. I was once very proud of this country and hope to be again someday........ ....Cooter

Maybe you guys are too young to remember, but the worst president in my lifetime was Jimmy Carter, followed closely by Gerald Ford, with W. and Slick Willie Clinton struggling to finish in the money.
This is a subject near and dear to my heart. It seems odd to me how people with relatively little at stake in these discussions can get worked up to the point of starting brawls, while injured POW's can discuss this over a game of checkers with humor and intelligence.
My last trip, a guy in Free City accused me of being a Marine, and wanted to fight. Not really what I am looking for in a coffeeshop in Amsterdam. Just one more reason in my mind to avoid this topic while overseas.
I don't like Castro, but I don't take it out on Cubans. China has a terrible human rights record, but I don't strike up my conversation with any of them with "How about that occupation of Tibet?"
Why would anyone think that the American rolling the joint at the end of the bar has control of our current foreign policy?

Weasel

I know there is a tradition here that politics ends at the border, but I've been profoundly disgusted for the last five years. I'd bad mouth the man on all seven continents if I could, but I understand how you feel. It's all the more admirable, given that he left you and your neighbors to fend for yourselves in the wake of Katrina, that you still feel that way. If you really don't want to talk about Bush, just say "I never discuss politics while on vacation." Then throw back your drink, and take a big hit off a joint.

I don't think there was always that degree of interest in US politics, but GWB has been such a polarising force and his foreign policy so forceful that the world can't help take an interest.

sometimes it's not just about the US politics..... when abroad, several people ask me my opinion on that funny little bald man that owns 90% of the country and has a weird sense of humor (to say the least). Needless to say, I'm always happy to badmouth the man and the whole italian government when speaking with folks from all over the world..........

D.

My tried and true method for discussing politics is that I make it clear that I view all politicians as low life scum bags.This includes all parties.This approach has always served me well and normally folks tend to agree.I am also amused at the myth that Europeans "hate" Americans.I believe this myth is a result of the out of control US media.Some Europeans I have chatted with seem to dislike Lance Armstrong more than President Bush which I find interesting as well.Anyway,enough of my random thoughts...I am outta here and headed to the Texas Hill Country...My second favorite destination behind Europe for fun and relaxation.

I kind of agree with Block in that I view all politicians as sleazy scum. They might have had good intentions when they first ran for office, but the USA political system is broken and has become so morally bankrupt that anyone who tries to work within that system gets tainted and corrupted by mere exposure to it. That's why I like to light up and, in the immortal words of Bob Dylan, forget about today until tomorrow.

And the moral of the story? You can always say that you're from Canada if you'd rather avoid a potential political debate overseas. Or else tell them that you don't vote which, in my case, is the truth. I don't believe in voting for the lesser of two evils, because in doing so I feel that you perpetuate our broken system.

I've never encountered much anti-Americanism in my travels. Unlike our politicians, most of the people I've met can distinguish between individuals and governments.

I think what it's basically about is that Europeans (or others for that matter) just want to know what the hell is going on over there in the U.S.!

Hi Mojo, yes you must tell them to back off if you do not wish to discuss it. there is a lot of advice here thatis good.

I like American people, always did, but Americans are just not used to hearing criticism, and take it as Anti-American, when actually I think people don't mean it that badly. This isn't like Anti-Semitism, for instance. This is more like hating the Soviets and liking the Russians, or disliking Castro and not taking it out on Cubans. Peoples opinions on Bush and American people are like that. I mean, at least they strike up a conversation with you don't they?

Americans get it more "in the neck" because American Politics affects the whole World. The president you (as Americans) elect affects us (as Europeans) probably more than our own elections effect us, and we have no say in this. Please remember that this feeling of being "unempowered" may be behind a lot of it.

Regarding the point that chinese people dont get hit with "so what about Tibet" is probably because the Chinese guy is from Hong Kong and does not speak English, and even if he was, he never elected his Government anyway... its cultural, Americans are much closer to Europeans.

Regarding the point that we didn't discuss other presidents so much, I beg to differ. When ronal Reagan had to finally go, theWhole Western World breathed a huge sigh of releif and we couldnt believe we were all still alive....its that "empowered" thing again isn't it.....

Take it all as a compliment Mojo. I would

> When people start asking me about Bush,,, my favorite retort is " Yeah,,,,
> I like Bush,,, the kind in the Window's"

Heh! I like that - it's mine now!

Weasel,

I'm old enough to remember them (I go back to Eisenhower) but I'll deeply disagree with your point. We've been scammed by Republican administrations and if we can separate the flag-waving from the actual policies put in place, people would begin to realize it. Carter inherited a dead economy and a failed political climate - if he would have been able to get the "Sunshine policy" adopted as a part of all legislation, we'd actually have to make our laws WORK for us. Reagan's years effectively saw the creation of PACs, phony "Committee for the American Way"-type hidden groups dedicated to producing smear campaigns and his final achievement: the death of the "Fairness Doctrine", opening the floodgates for corporations to take over the media and produce fine news organizations like Fox that can smear people regularly and call it entertainment, brand anyone who dissidents as a "traitors" and get away with it all. There's no equal time, anymore, for opposing views. Is this your idea of "Fair and balanced"? It's not mine.

Bill Clinton, in my estimation, was one of the best presidents we've had in the past 50 years, but it'll always come down to whether a man should have to tell the world when he's had a bit on the side - considering where we are now, what do you think the answer should be? ;)

At least we have civil discourse under liberals and Democrats - it seems we lose the right to speak out under Republicans!

At World on Saturday, I do remember dear old Desert Fox trying not to laugh when I said.."Bill Clinton would have loved it here".

He was a very intelligent and compassionate president. Vastly underrated by his own people.

Where did he come from ?!?!?

Arkansas! Yeee-haw!

Greetings All
I used to enjoy discussing politics and world events while at a Bar or getting stoned with others. Unfortunately, it seems that the world is so polarized that it is no longer possible. While in Europe last summer, I had the opportunity to talk to a German while drinking at the plaza in Cordova Spain. This conversation centered on why did Americans re-elect George Bush and because we did, we Yankees are the focus of evil and the cause of all the world's problems. His candor was very disturbing; he related to me that if we don't overthrow the Government, each and every American would be responsible for the inevitable Armageddon. Also has a chat with a Frenchman in Paris while drinking whiskey. That was a mistake. He said that America deserved the terrorist attacks on 9-11, and that Europeans in general we glad to see America get smacked down. Needless to say, I felt like I was in enemy territory while in France. In Amsterdam, I avoided any political conversation entirely. It seems that there were more Brits and Germans in the coffeeshops than Dutch anyway. So I didn't get to chance to meet and enjoy a conversation with a Dutchman. I would like the opportunity. Maybe things will be better in the future, but right now it is tough to answer questions from Europeans about the present political situation here in the US. As well as it should be difficult, because it mostly indefensible. I am proud to be an American, not very proud of the Bush administration and our foreign policy.
Thanks again to this forum for allowing free expression.

I have to disagree with the what the previous post relates. I was in Paris in January 2002, 4 months after 9-11. Almost every shop or restaurant window had either an American flag or a note saying that their sympathies were with the American people or both. Later that trip, in Amsterdam, my wife and I stopped into a small snack shop late at night to pick up a bottle of water to take back to the hotel. The shop keeper asked if we were American. He told us that he was Egyptian and that he was "so sorry about what happened". Perhaps the biggest tragedy of the Bush's reign was his pissing away of the feelings that existed post 9-11. He had the opportunity to use world wide post 9-11 mood , to build a meaningful anti-terrorist coalition. Instead he pissed it all away in a macho orgasm of violence in Iraq.

The asshole's poll numbers are at record lows, his administration is falling apart around him with indictments, displays of incompetence and a deepening quagmire in Iraq. Hopefully, the end of this nightmare is near.