Hi Bluto

Sometime back on one of my threads, there was a discussion about with the working girls really thought about us.

One time I was in Amsterdam in the district and I was thinking to myself “ look at all these creepy men” then I thought to myself, “ I am one of those guys“! Lol

Someone commented on my post that you might have something written by one of the girls, and that it was not complementary! Do you still have that post, and if so would you be willing to Share it?

Regards, Redplanet

Yeah, you've asked this before. I'm not trying to be a dick here but I really think you ought to ask yourself why you even care about the answer to this question.

In any event, I'm pretty sure the thread that someone was referring to is this one: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19987&p=136553#p136553

Thanks Bluto, sheer curiosity!

I think that new perspectives are always a good thing! Another factor was that the girls do not contribute to this for him. Maybe they should maybe they should not, I don’t know.

I think what I was looking for, was just some insight into what their working conditions are like, and maybe how we behave or should behave. My motive was certainly not to denigrate either the service provider or the customer…

Anyways I’ll give this a read, and thanks for sharing, best Redplanet

Ok Bluto,

I just went through the string of posts,

Honestly I like that kind of frank discussion,

All the best and let’s hope for a great summer!

Redplanet

Not every man who bonks ladies of negotiable affection really needs to pay women for sex, some people have kinks they want to experience, are married and in dead bedrooms, or cash rich but time poor, etc etc. But a large sub-set of punters (I include myself here) are basically forced to bribe women to shag us, something which can cause symptoms of psychological discomfort to arise when it rubs up against our self-esteem.

One way to get around that is to obsess about the girls and their feelings towards you, the way you might a civvy fling. I also think there's a sub-section of guys across the world who think they are paying for sex but are actually looking for an emotional connection with their favourite escort, which they definitely won't get. That kind are the ones that often end up marrying Russian mail order brides or ex-Thai bar girls in an attempt to buy a short cut to relationships. Doesn't often work IMO, but there you are.

The simple answer to how most working girls (WGs) feel towards their customers is that it varies by time, man and situation. Looking at it from the WGs' POV though (and yes, us punters have our legitimate gripes here, which are too often overlooked), they are often having sex with some pretty odd or unattractive partners, in a clandestine industry where drugs and crime are still often not too far away. That's bound to instill a bit of negativity in the WG mindset, along with the double life and the weird times most of them have to live/work in. And some of them like Tineke clearly hate the job but let their greed outweigh their feelings about it (for the record if you actively hate doing hooking like Tineke did, then I'm firmly of the opinion that you should leave the industry, both for yourself and for the clients who have to endure your sour presence in the bedroom).

I suspect that in the absence of any negative external factors like BO or craziness, most WGs just find the clients a beige blob of boring. After all, doing the same thing over and over turns anything into an average routine, even risky stuff like drug dealing or working in a war zone. Back when the Belle Du Jour crap was at its height I read a book by an English WG who joined a massage parlour as a student in the late 1990s, and worked her way up the industry in the 2000s, after she found that shagging men professionally paid more than an arts and humanities degree ever would.

According to her the WGs she worked with were from all over the place and working for all sorts of different reasons. But she wrote a passage about what it was like to do an average booking for a normal guy on his lunch break and the biggest stress most of them had was making sure the session went smoothly, so they could get to the point when the client was on his back getting serviced by them in cowgirl, while the WGs were able to think about shopping lists or what have you. Personally I've always enjoyed the image of a WG doing a guy on autopilot, while he can relax, knowing he doesn't have to do anything to impress her at all (the so-called male burden of performance).

Hi Grassleaf

I think you are right! The girls find us boring which is a good thing for them. They are getting paid to do a very repetitive job and the least drama or objectionable behaviour the better.

Maybe we can like to think about some kind of bond we are making and for some it could be quite strong, maybe even both ways. But on balance it is a transaction. Plain and simple. I have a great deal of empathy for these girls ... while I don’t pity them, not the girls in Amsterdam or similar locals, I do wonder if they will ever do something else or have the opportunity at least.

Anyways this is a peculiar hobby. Myself the excitement is always the first few minutes of contact and following them in.

Random thought to tag onto yours for sure but I really liked your post!!

... well, ...

as far as I know, and I know it from some ... some johns are cool, some are assholes, some stink, but most johns are just johns...

Cheers,

... John (Eric)

p.s. I know Tineke loves her job ... if you read between the lines of board conversations with her in the past - another explanation, and I'm pretty sure it's right - her dissatisfaction is not about money, it's all about - as Aretha Franklin sings - respect. If you've ever met Tineke, you'll immediately recognize she has the empathy of a nurse. In fact, I'm not sure I've met a person on earth who has a more loving heart than she has. I've seen that if some other girl is in dire straights, she'll give her whole weeks salary away in support. If you're a "positive energy person" - that's the description she likes to use - that woman will take you under her wing and care for you...

In my experience it really depends on the girl. To some we are just cashcows who they'd be best see as little of as possible. But there are enough professional girls who take their job serious. To them we are one end of a business transaction where we do our part and in return to make us feel special for a limited amount of time.

I'm not sure if it's okay to name specific origins but there are 2 types of girls I really, really avoid. Only a few good experiences on those types. My best experience is with the West European and Asian girls. Just be nice to them and they'll be very nice to you.

As they say money talks.

I think they would have favourite customers and not so liked customers.

At the end of the day its a buisness associate that's all.Regular customer in your shop.Keep them sweet there comeback.

THEY have there own life and don't care for us.

I'd say there can be fondness between a hooker and her favourite clients, but yeah, at the end of the day from the girl's POV this is ultimately about paying her rent. Moreover from the guy's POV most of them want some elements of connection (sex, touch, girlfriend experience etc), but ultimately they aren't serious about a deeper connection themselves. I mean, are they really planning to stop banging other escorts or willing to commit to someone who is having sex with other men (personally I don't care if it is professionally, I don't like to share my serious partners)? Perhaps guys heading for retirement who meet a mature escort would (especially if she is looking to retire from the being on the game), but that's not the vast majority of punters.

That isn't to say a punter should act bitter, hostile and jaded towards escorts because he's butthurt about being single and/or in a dead bedroom partnership. We especially can't complain about girls who rip us off etc etc and then turn around and justify mistreating them because they're sex workers (pot/kettle; if selling sex is bad then so is buying it lol). But clients should modulate their expectations of what they are seeking when they book a punt. Personally I've had a lot of bad service or mediocre sex from starfish types in my time; but I've also had mind-blowingly good sex, slept with gorgeous girls way out of my league (to be fair that's 90% of the female population given my looks), been shown new ways of having sex I'd never have known about or tried, and had my horizons broadened in other ways (have sex with older escorts, they are often awesome in bed).

Without wanting to sing paeans to what is at base just a professional service, I'm very grateful for the existence of prostitution in the modern world. Its helped me through two difficult periods of my life (it gave me confidence back at the start of my young adulthood when I had no experience of sex or women, and 10-15 years later on, after I'd lost interest in chasing women but not in having sex with them, it gave me a regular sexual outlet). Thankfully my formative years were just about before today's toxic incel ideology was around (or technology had enabled young people to avoid being forced to socialise with the opposite sex), but that's not to say the "old days" were any good either. Just differently bad IMO, with a lot of isolation or people stuck in bad relationships because they couldn't find anyone else or conceive of life being any different.

Visiting prostitutes also helped me gain the skills and confidence to indirectly get into both of the most recent relationships I was in with civvy women. Ultimately we were incompatible, but I can at least say my life so far has been better than these guys: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-44143003

The original post about about what the girls really think about us really opened up some existential questions about why we do what we do. It also reaffirmed The reality of the business transaction.

I think that I will return to Bluto‘s assertion that I should ask myself why I want to know what they think of us?

I think I might have said it in earlier threads, but I’ll say it again, it’s really about getting an insight on what life is like on the other side.

Yes many of the girls, if not most will tell you what their working conditions are like in a few minutes left while we were getting dressed, and they are getting ready to get back into the window. Time is limited ha ha.

I remember paying extra in order to cum on a girls tits. She went along with it, but I at the end of the day I don’t think was really comfortable in this act. After we had done, she talked about how she was only doing this job for one year and the customers ask her to do all kinds of crazy things. One of the things was to have sex without a condom. I mentioned that men that ask for that, or to get themselves regular girlfriends instead.

After that comment, her and I seem to hit it off quite well and then it was time to go. So this exchange was a bit of a rare insight. I would love it if I could see more first hand accounts from the girls themselves.

I would love to see the girls honest anecdotes about The typical clients. The nervous guy, the young guy, the old guy, the cheap guy, the guy gushing in cash… The things they like to do or will do, or won’t.....the list goes on and on!

Falling back on my response to Bluto as to why I am interested in the first place? Sheer curiosity! It occurred to me what I really want is to be a fly in the wall listening what the girls are saying to each other about us!

I don’t think I am insecure about what I do but you be the judge. I believe it is more about interest in the human The original post about about what the girls really think about us really opened up some existential questions about why we do what we do. It also reaffirmed The reality of the business transaction.

I think that I will return to Bluto‘s assertion that I should ask myself why I want to know what they think of us?

I think I might have said it in earlier threads, but I’ll say it again, it’s really about getting an insight on what life is like on the other side.

Yes many of the girls, if not most will tell you what their working conditions are like in a few minutes left while we were getting dressed, and they are getting ready to get back into the window. Time is limited ha ha.

I remember paying extra in order to cum on a girls tits. She went along with it, but I at the end of the day I don’t think was really comfortable in this act. After we had done, she talked about how she was only doing this job for one year and the customers ask her to do all kinds of crazy things. One of the things was to have sex without a condom. I mentioned that men that ask for that, or to get themselves regular girlfriends instead.

After that comment, her and I seem to hit it off quite well and then it was time to go. So this exchange was a bit of a rare insight. I would love it if I could see more first hand accounts from the girls themselves.

I would love to see the girls honest anecdotes about The typical clients. The nervous guy, the young guy, the old guy, the cheap guy, the guy gushing in cash… The things they like to do or will do, or won’t.....the list goes on and on!

Falling back on my response to Bluto as to why I am interested in the first place? Sheer curiosity! It occurred to me what I really want is to be a fly in the wall listening what the girls are saying to each other about us!

I don’t think I am insecure about what I do but you be the judge. I believe more about interest in the human drama, comedy and the few occasions we can make some kind of a limited connection. drama, comedy and the few occasions we can make some kind of a limited manner. Also I love to read women’s account of sexual acts.

To repeat the words of a colleague above...THEY have a life! As such they are entitled to privacy so maybe I’m asking too much? Still if anyone has any ideas on the girls insights, I would love to know!

Best....Redplanet!

Sorry for the duplicates Text! Next time I will use the preview button!

An essay on thinking about what sex workers think of me...

Every living thing exists from two core activities: 1. acquiring energy, 2. producing more of oneself - I call it, "life is: absorbing foreign life forms, and spitting out new forms which look like us." The drives within us to accomplish this originate from deep within the ancient areas of our minds. Desires and pleasures are the emotions driving our physical and psychological needs for eating and fucking. Over the past billion years as we evolved, these most primal drives formed more complex; they became what we describe as hunger, lust, and love; though, the manifestations thereof are sometimes fuzzy: I do love pizza, and I'm hungry for woman.

On the other side, evolved or learned, the act of reproduction is shameful. In collage, my professor of intermediate animal behavior explained it this way, "the feeling of 'shame' originated as a driving mechanism to seek shelter. Sex is loud and stinky, and makes two individuals vulnerable; to avoid being pray to predators and competitors, animals feel shame to drive them to fuck while hiding." Just as it's like that for peeing and shitting; who doesn't like to lock the bathroom door?

Sex is majestic, sex work is majestic. I'm impressed by, and curious of, the social and emotional intelligence required to overcome the social stigma that is at least partially a manifestation of our evolved neural program for shame. I'm impressed by the emotional intelligence of better sex workers who read the minds of random passersby - feeling the needs of those who don't even know themselves. Sex working girls and guys push all our right buttons, satisfying our primal needs for naughty and nice. The girls I know well, even if they don't put it in words, feel good when making others feel good; well, that is, if they like the other enough to want to make them feel good. So what do they think of us? - the answer is empathy, they think of us as well as we think of them.

I adore the majesty of the red light district, and I appreciate knowing working people there; who, more or less, have me feel involved without being involved, in this shameful animal activity of ours which keeps us human. To reciprocate, I often take one or another out to dinner; wanting that, if they satisfy one need, I might satisfy the other. Money for sex is no different; you feed them, they feed you - if it's fair, it's symbiosis, and everyone goes home pleased.

Cheers,

... Eric

Hahahaha, that's a very interesting essay. Didn't know the theoretical roots of shame before.

Fits in nicely with what girls call “the walk of shame” where they are going home early in the morning after spending the night at their boyfriends place, supposedly under the glare of passerby’s who know exactly what they have been doing!

I like your generous and optimistic approach to the question. I agree that they can be empathetic with us if we treat them right, pay them a fair price and respect them.

The was one girl, Turkish/Romanian with big fake boobs on a very narrow street. We had a nice un rushed chat in the fleeting time between getting dressed and departure. I asked her if anyone ever forgets anything when they leave? She told me a crazy story about some guy forgetting his wallet and plane tickets and that she had to fly out the door dressed as you can imagine all the way down a canal! She did catch him!

So I find now that I have done this a few times it is possible to get them to share their stories and I’m sure they have plenty!

Thanks everyone for these great posts! Redplanet!

Spot on, Eric!

There's nothing shameful in what we do, or in what the girls do. In any enlightened society this is recognized as just another business transaction. And in my humble opinion, this is one of the most honest jobs a human can do... appeasing the needs "burned" in our DNA from the time we were lizards.

Sadly, however, we are all raised with fairy tales; of princesses and prince charmings and live-happily-ever-afters. The working girls know or have learned - even if they can't express it verbally - that this is just societal / religious brain-washing bullshit. But still, just as sometimes we long for connection, they do too. I am sure from time to time they watch "Pretty Woman" and sigh for the fairy-tale-handsome-prince-made-of-money that will visit their window and stop them from their tedious jobs.

But so do waitresses, and cleaning ladies, and all women, and all men. None of us are in love with our jobs - we just do them to survive.

And I must also say that with two of my regular ladies, the relationship is, in many ways, very real. We don't just fuck and orgasm together - it has grown beyond that. I think that's why these girls are really happy to see me - I am more than just another client to "go through the motions".

That's what I recommend to all you, my fellow punters. Treat these girls with respect - as they did in all ancient cultures (Google it).

Love you, working girls! You saved me from the daily torture of marriage - and give me something to look forward to every week.

See you soon :-)

Not a single fuck is given by me to what the girls think of me :)
Hope everyone is well!

IMHO, that's the beauty of the scene, one doesn't need to care; each can go their way - keep it cold, make it warm; but whatever feelings you choose to have, it's coolest if it gets hot...

Personality, I like it both ways; sometimes I want it to be with a stranger I'll never see again -- get in the fuck out.

Hope everyone is well as well,

... Eric

Sadly, I have set foot in Europe during this century, but I enjoyed the 1990s. One of my friends is an academic who writes about sex workers, has noted a surprising number of long term relationships that develop between WGs and their long term clients. Obviously, this is a self-selecting subgroup... long term implies close physical proximity and an agreeable arrangement. Obviously, my friend notes this is just his antidotal observations which is a very weak type of evidence.

The last thing I want to do is contribute to delusions and/or fraud. If you think your in love with your favorite WG, I think it's a good idea to check-in with a sex-positive shrink to keep yourself honest.

But when you factor in the stigma sex work carries even in the more liberal western European countries, that limits the dating pool of aging WGs... a steady friendly neighborhood guy can make good candidate for a LTR. If you happen to really share a sexual proclivity or two, add points.

To be sure, women don't become sex-workers for the social opportunities. But who gets any job for the social opportunities?

At the end of the day, people are people, and sometimes something clicks. Personally, I think many of these women are pretty amazing people. If one took to me, I'd seriously have to consider whatever she is suggesting.