Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-14, 12:34 am
neurosynth
Power Kat XXX
Posts: 2733
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Those who have been here at ignatzmice.com for a number of years may recall I've been one of the more adamant defenders of Amsterdam despite the decline in commercial sex services. On the map I maintained for quite a while* I used Amsterdam as the RLD/Window/Laufhaus benchmark against which all others were to be judged. This despite the fact that many years ago my preference shifted from Dutch windows to German FKKs.
I made an AMS visit last July that has caused me to reconsider this. Due to the circumstances of my visit I wasn't able to actually visit any of the providers. (I did make a one evening appearance at Paradise.) But I was able to take a few walks around the RLD and things just seemed to be at an all time low. While on paper it could well be that the number of windows available has been mostly maintained, the quality of Walletjes pay for play has undeniably deteriorated. Other than evening peak periods the number of actual sex workers on duty was low. My sense was that the proportion of rip-off or marginal sessions has probably gone up.
There is, of course, always the chance that one's early experiences merely seemed better because of novelty and not having acquired a certain jadedness yet. But I don't think that's the case here. After some 20 years on the chase, I'm pretty comfortable with being objective about these things. However jaded, I don't feel like all of my former haunts have deteriorated. Amsterdam, it seems to me, has gone downhill while other options (eg German FKKs) have stayed relatively stable. (There is the "new" anti-bareback legislation in Germany, but in fact I've had no problem in acquiring what is now illegal there.)
And then there is this: legal weed is becoming more and more common. I've bought legal weed in Colorado and California, and look forward to the legalization that will begin in Illinois with the new year.
Don't get me wrong. Amsterdam is still a great place to visit. But now more than ever the sex alone, or even along with the availability of weed, may not be enough to justify a trip. However, if it's a city in a European tour, or if the addition of the museums, shopping, etc. is meaningful to you, it's nice to visit a pleasant city with the added bonus of sex and weed for sale.
I realize this is old news to many of you. Prior to this trip I've disagreed that AMS has fallen out of the first tier. But now I feel like it truly cannot serve as a benchmark. Reasonable people can disagree as to when this happened, but that it indeed has happened seems undeniable.
* I still have the data for that map intact. There are some new mapping resources out there. This is a low priority item for me, but I've not given up on reinstating it as a publicly available map.
_________________ http://tinyurl.com/eurolights - CLOSED FOR NOW - Sadly Google has disallowed public access to this map. I'm seeking alternative platforms. If you have suggestions, please message me!
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-14, 5:11 am
grimnul
Power Kat
Posts: 1539
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I partly agree. I think it depends on what you’re looking for. I like the “fast-food sex” vibe of De Wallen. It’s not GFE, it’s fast and dirty, but it’s just fun to me. I’ve been exploring the scene here in Toronto, actually had a pretty fantastic session just a few hours ago, if I want GFE, I can get it here. Amsterdam just has something different. To me, it’s not better or worse, it’s just different. If you’re looking for intimate GFE-type encounters, the yeah, Amsterdam is probably not going to be for you.
I will say, I still saw plenty of girls around last time I was there. I’ll be back in a few weeks, it’ll be interesting to see if things have changed that much since then.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-14, 1:36 pm
Grassleaf
Posts: 200
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I was getting the feeling that Amsterdam was no longer the red-hot centre of transgressive nightlife it had been when I first visited it almost 15 years ago; both from the news and from what I've read on this board.
In some ways the rest of the world seems to be catching up with the Dutch (for example, the legal weed movement is progressing by leaps and bounds in many places, though not in the UK, where our proud tradition of only implementing bad American ideas--Reaganomics--whilst resisting the good ones--the First Amendment, legal weed etc--remain firmly in place).
OTOH, the Dutch have been as much impacted by global trends are they have impacted them. Gentrification, our ubiquitous surveillance culture (hello smartphone cameras in the hands of tourists!) and the current fascination with the hypocritical Nordic model have all hammered the RLD and the old Dutch habit of turning a blind eye to things without explicitly condoning them. Its sad really, but it does show why tolerance is only a half-way house, and New Zealand style legalisation is the only sure way to inoculate the sex industry against both organised crime and the morality police that feed the gangsters' bank accounts.
Personally, I'm going back this year out of nostalgia and to look again at the windows from a soon-to-be middle-aged guy's POV, rather than a 21 year-old near-virgin's goggle-eyed take. The whole Brexit thing gave me a push as it could soon be annoyingly harder to visit anywhere in Europe the way people of my generation have grown used to.
But, while I'm happy to base myself in Amsterdam, I'm going to be going out to other parts of Holland, and popping into the cultural bits of the city as much as the drugs and sex ones. Probably should have booked a longer trip that was less about shagging and more a general holiday with the fun stuff on the side. Its still sad that everything I read here says that I could get better service and cheaper sex in London, but I guess I'll just have to settle for the illicit (tourist, lol) thrill of seeing lots of nubile women in lit windows advertising openly what goes on elsewhere in the world behind closed doors.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-15, 12:41 am
retro
Power Kat
Posts: 970
Location: U.k
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I also think it's not what it was unfortunately. I've only been twice in over a year and a half and both trips I only visited one girl, which was Simona. The last time was also in July. I had one session with Simona on the first of three nights, after that I just didn't feel like visiting anyone else as I just don't think Im going to get a session of old anymore... I've spoke to a number of girls just to see what's on offer and what most said really didn't make me think it would be money well spent...
Over the first few years of going I got to know at least three girls very well, that I got close to the so called GFE with but now I don't think there is much chance of getting anything like that now.
So I've thought over the past year or so would I still visit if I wasn't seeing the girls and I think I would as I know some people there who I occasionally meet up with. It's also easy to get to for me, so i will probably do a once a year short trip to relax.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-15, 7:27 am
IQ
Posts: 305
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I'm not in North America, so I don't get to enjoy legal weed anywhere except the Netherlands. If Germany were to legalize weed, I think I would have a hard time dragging myself to Amsterdam. I still love the city for its charm, canals, bicycle culture, etc. and I enjoy the windows when I go, but if I could find another place where I could combine all my hobbies, I would reconsider my destinations. For the moment it is my one-stop-shop.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-15, 11:30 am
Grassleaf
Posts: 200
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IQ wrote: I'm not in North America, so I don't get to enjoy legal weed anywhere except the Netherlands. If Germany were to legalize weed, I think I would have a hard time dragging myself to Amsterdam. I still love the city for its charm, canals, bicycle culture, etc. and I enjoy the windows when I go, but if I could find another place where I could combine all my hobbies, I would reconsider my destinations. For the moment it is my one-stop-shop. Word; Germany is generally awesome, but I won't go there by preference on holiday until I can also get stoned and high on psilocybin as well as visiting its delightful dens of iniquity. I had a great time in Berlin five years ago with the country's various legal brothels (never went to an FKK club though) and wasn't disappointed. Tried the same trick a couple of times in Stuttgart when I was on a business trip last year, but (and I find this is often the case with SPs everywhere) while the women involved were both gorgeous, the sessions felt rushed and mechanical (one was a busty Latina and the other was Russian). My big fear of Amsterdam is that seeing all the beauties posing in the windows will fool my little brain into repeating the Stuttgart experience, and wasting my money. Fortunately, I can reach Amsterdam pretty easily and then use it as a base to hit The Hague and maybe Amersfoort (I'm 5 minutes away from the central station) for two days of my (all too short) mini-break. Other than that I'm going to stick to Singel or de Pijp, or maybe, (if lucky and have the time) find the main RLD windows where the likes of Simona, Vanessa or Selena are working. Psychologically, I'm one of those people who likes to take their time rather than have a succession of quick cheap shags that last 20-30 minutes, so the windows are probably not my best area to visit these days. However, I think Amsterdam can still be justified if you treat it like a gateway to the wider Netherlands; but its no Thailand, you have to go there for reasons other than just (not so cheap) sex. I've been back with friends in 2015 and enjoyed my time there despite not being able to sneak off and see any escorts. Its a beautiful place and full of things to do apart from chasing tail. Its also the logical base to start off from if you are visiting from the UK, which might be the case for everyone on here.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-19, 9:31 pm
officematt2002
Posts: 267
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Today I arrived in Amsterdam and could not believe how quiet De Wallen was throughout the afternoon and evening. Very puzzling. No Anna but I did meet Thai Linda who was very nice. stoofsteegnnorthside in the middle. Hopefully tomorrow will be better now that I got over the jet lag. I will be here a few more days and then headed to FKK land.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-21, 11:59 am
hooters
Posts: 16
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I don't think it ever was the benchmark. It was always bad value for money and tourist trap. You could always make your money go further elsewhere.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-23, 9:39 am
greenhoff
Supporting Member
Posts: 3070
Location: sunny dorset uk
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hooters wrote: I don't think it ever was the benchmark. It was always bad value for money and tourist trap. You could always make your money go further elsewhere. sorry, but i disagree ! Amsterdam in the 70/80"s was THE place in Europe to go, no other RLD could compete with it, but the demise started in the late 80"s, and its been on a downward spiral since, to the sorry state its in today. [a bit like Soho in London] More fun can be had in Germany/Poland [God i love Polish girls] and a few more European cities !! It was that good in my early trips, that i flew over 4 times in ONE month, i was addicted to the place, now im considering if i will go back Adore the Dutch, the city, but De Wallen has had its day sadly Just my opinions regards
_________________ Need to be arrested by a tall,blonde female politie !! STOKE CITY FC
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-25, 9:29 am
GeorgeK2
Posts: 44
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I have just spent 3 consecutive evenings walking through the Wallen in the early evening for the first time in many years. I has shocked at how few women were available, the proportion of empty places considerably outweighed those with women. Maybe it changes later at night but the situation for me was dire I didnt see any even halfway attractive women - for my tastes anyhow. The campaign against the 'redlight area' seems to have had some impact.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-29, 5:37 pm
420
Power Kat
Posts: 1021
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After 20 years visiting Amsterdam (40+ times) I have seen a lot of changes. It all started when the Euro replaced the Guilder,,then all the issues with illegal sex workers,,,new politicians and the weed legalization changes in the USA. My personal "ah-ha" moment that changed my affinity for the Wallen was my first Sauna Club trip to Planet Happy Garden (with some of the most esteemed old members of this board (Fred, Pepto, Wim).
After my first FKK experience I moved on to Frankfurt/Giessen/Bruggen/Berlin for virtually all of my P4P activities. I have not been in a Wallen/Alkmaar Window for over 15 years. As pretty as these girls are in the Red Lights I prefer the laid back aspect of Sauna Clubs AND that these club girls are vetted prior to entry. Add in that they shower after every session vs the opposite in RLD made a huge impact on my psychology of P4P.
As I get older (57 currently) I simply cannot get my my mojo going in 15 minutes and then finish while they are looking at the clock. I have spent big $ extending RLD visits but found that the experiences were more hit and miss than my experiences in clubs.
I have been to AMS 4 times in the last year mainly to transit in and out of other countries. My routine is one night, stop at a few favorite Coffeeshops, walk the Canals, rent a bike, see Wim,,and then off to my next destination.
I also found new things to do that I would never do in the past,,,renting bikes and riding around town, taking a private Canal Cruise (the best is the service behind the Kras), sitting at the Windmill Brewery, going to Concerts at the Concertgebouw,,,and just enjoying the unique vibe of Amsterdam.
Take out the RLD and Weed,,,still a wonderful place to visit but not a destination any longer for P4P.
Staying at the Kras 10/2-10/3 and again 10/28-10/29.
_________________ Pura Vida
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-09-30, 10:12 am
The Kman
Posts: 42
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hooters wrote: I don't think it ever was the benchmark. It was always bad value for money and tourist trap. You could always make your money go further elsewhere. You are obviously not old enough to have enjoyed Amsterdam in the 80's. Chalk and cheese compared to what it is now.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-10-17, 5:55 pm
lilji
Posts: 432
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I always have a soft spot for Amsterdam. It was my first city I visited when I left Scotland in my journey to live in other places. I've never returned to live in Scotland, but I have lived in other places all around Europe. My main reason for not returning in nearly 2 years or so is partly financial. I live a very cheap life in order to maintain a semi nomadic lifestyle. Before, when I was living in London, I could afford to blow a few hundred Euros in a weekend every month...now I kind of have to think about prices and go elsewhere. That's led me to different RLD's in Europe. I'm not sure now if it's nostalgia that makes me think of Amsterdam as being better than everywhere else I've visited tho or if it's really not as great as I once thought it to be. I kinda don't want to admit that it's not the holy grail I suppose.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-10-22, 9:32 pm
funfor2houston
Posts: 392
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Amsterdam has changed tremendously , we have been going for 25 years so we have seen lots of changes . The saddest thing is the price you pay and the value of what you get . I am in a different situation then you . I am married but my dear wife enjoys Amsterdam and if I want a window girl she is there with me. We got cheap tickets this August so we came to Europe for three weeks . When we were in Amsterdam they had the Pride party so it was a city blowing up tons of all kinds of people. My wife had been communicating with Jennifer Hopelezz on face book . Jennifer is one of the world leaders for the LGBTQ . We met Jennifer one evening for dinner and kind of funny she was not dressed in drag . But what I am getting to she explained that Amsterdam is changing lots of ways . She feels that they are trying to make Amsterdam into a mini NY City . But with that comes cleaning up things that have made the city popular to lots of us ( pervs ) She invited us to one of her clubs on couples night , ok it was an experience . Jennifer has two clubs in Amsterdam and she says they are doing OK , not like the old days . Everyone talks of the high prices taking over . A French TG entertainer explained that rents are going high so everyone one is charging more . We went to Fata Morganas , our favorite lifestyle club in the world . We have been to plenty , but FM seems to attract people we are compatible with . We ran into a couple that had just opened a Nude lifestyle B&B . We will try it next trip . We heard from the owners of Fata Morganas that the club is for sale . I thought I heard 8mil but they want out of the business. So in the near future FM will probably be gone . I don't know about Amsterdam we do not focus only on the RLD but certainly prices are driving us off . We usually go to Amsterdam twice a year and then to Key West for Fantasy Fest . It seems many Europeons are coming to FF If you want to have a good laugh go to the Fantasy Fest Webcams , FF is going on until the end of the month . We are part of a Krew . Our float for this Saturday nights parade has two nude ladies leading our float with hula hoops and two nude pole dancers . FF has some really super Adult parties and among our friends the most hedonistic party in the U S . Xposed party is straight out of old Amsterdam . All except the weed but you can usually find weed there also .
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-11-17, 11:47 pm
kal77uk
Posts: 37
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12-11-2019
1000-1400 hours barely any occupation of the windows, I dont know where these comments about Amsterdam RLD booming come from. In total I saw 11 women and 3 shemales (the famous Paloma being one of them), in the main RLD. The area wasnt over run by tourists but it was clear they were there to make videos and take photos. Same again 1600-2000 then it took off in terms of window occupation, but the number of gawkers had increased massively too. The girls nowadays are non-Dutch which makes it harder to bargain. EE girls in particular- you know you are going to be ripped off. With locals they would be honest and potentially meet you afterwards at Burger King or Bijenkorf. A decade ago the RLD would continue through the night to around 0500, but by midnight it was dead again and resembled what I saw earlier-lines of empty windows-so few non-tourists you would remember who they were!!!. How things have changed.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-11-19, 2:28 pm
tw25rw
Power Kat
Posts: 703
Location: London
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There was a time when I loved Amsterdam so much that I was never happy unless I was there or had a trip to look forward to. Then in 2005 I paid a visit to Thailand. I'm not into weed, and would never touch drugs there, but otherwise Thailand blows Amsterdam out of the water for fun and debauchery. For me now, Amsterdam only wins on proximity to London.
_________________ -----------------------------------------------------------
No muff too tuff.
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Re: Amsterdam no longer the benchmark
Posted: 2019-11-22, 4:20 am
weasel9x9
Supporting Member
Posts: 1873
Location: cheesehead central
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Neuro,
6 weeks away from legal weed in Illinois AND Michigan. I'm sure it will be a clusterfuck for the first few months until all the politicians get their bribes, but then it will be a game changer. Medical weed has been around for a while, and one of my dear friends is easing the pain of prostate cancer with vape pens full of 69.5% THC. You read that right. And you won't see that in Amsterdam.
I don't think I have had a window romp in Amsterdam since Sammy retired. I agree that the quality has gone down, but my tastes have changed. I like long and slow, and that was never a strong point in the Wallen. The escort scene there has exploded, and that suits my tastes better. Alkmaar still works for me, and the FKK's in Germany have improved over the last few years.
I generally agree with all the complaints. However, there is no place else on earth that makes me as excited when I roll into town, and there is no place else that sets me on the brink of tears when I leave. The total package is still hard to beat. One of my kids is considering moving there for work in 2021, and if that comes to pass, I may do the same. I am genuinely excited at the idea. So while I may whine and complain, If I choose to move there over all the other possibilities, there must still be something wonderful going on.
Weasel
_________________ ...running around in the shoes of a clown...
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