Don't know if anybody has heard of the movement MGTOW. It stands for men going there own way. The movement stands for a very broad amount of things.However at the heart of it is a mistrust of women, a hatred of feminism and marriage laws.So men who are MGTOW decide to go there own way. In other words they avoid women and marriage.

I have avoided women and marriage for like 20 years as I don't trust them due to bad experiences.I also don't trust the government or marriage laws.

Anyway just wondering do people who frequent this forum end up mongering because of the kind of sentiment that groups like MGTOW have?

Nope. I love women.

Im sorry to hear that. Btw, do you have any female friends? Same experience with them also?

Well, I have a very good experience with women. I respect all women / men / trans gender etc. Good relationships (in the past) single now.

I like women.

I dislike misogynists and incels, which MGTOWs are linked to.

MGTOWs are looked upon with scorn and derision by non-incels and non-MGTOWs.

Go your own way. No one cares.

Spoiler, opinion follows...

I'm surprised, bothered, a society can get to a point where a countable number of its people feel they've been treated unfairly by a gender, race, category, or law. It's society's problem. Resentment, finger-pointing, blaming, wishing another's ill comes from unfair rules of engagement.

Failing unions for long partnerships, or for short together moments cause resentment of the type that facilitates "Men Going Their Own Way", or women who decide to do the same.

I find no fairness in a marriage where half of everything the other previously owned becomes the other's - even when that partnership lasts only moments. I find no balance in when shortly ending up in someone else's bed dissolves decades of fidelity. If society and culture don't promote the fair, the only thing you can do is allow your emotions to guide your direction, but use your mind to dictate your path - before entering into a contract, establish rules of engagement for union, sustainability, and dissolution.

For the type of resentment stemming from the lack of obtaining that most value resource residing between another person's legs, and love, needed to feel whole, I wager that companion service availability alleviates that resentment to a great degree.

In my humble opinion - I agree, it's a long shot - societies promoting fair union rules, and supporting consensual paid companion services, have fewer who feel GTOW is even something to consider.

Cheers,

... Eric

Hi Diesel,

I'm not a Misogynist! I don't hate women.

I'm simple pointing out that marriage and relationships these days seem risky especially if you own anything which I do.Im seeing if people have ended up at Ignatz because of some connection to societies divorce problem and men going there own way for various reasons.

53% of marriages in the United States end in divorce(yes that is an accurate statistic given to me by a leading professor of psychiatry).The laws in divorce are also heavily biased towards women. This is not sexist talk this is the view of research done by psychiatry and psychology.

Men going there own way is not anybody saying I'm giving women the two fingers. its more an attitude whereby one thinks that life is safer and perhaps better by opting out.

Hi Rodney.

I think it's different in the States.

I had an interaction at work over the last couple of years with a 30-year old, rather pretty American woman, that validated all the MGTOW theories and then some... I could see why having any sort of relationship with this woman would only end badly - entitlement, attitude, etc. The funny thing is that she "confessed" a lot to me - things like "why can't I find a nice boyfriend", "where have all the good men gone" - etc.... While at the same time, she was (a)"milking" a poor guy who was desperate for her, paying for vacation trips with her, etc, (b) friends-with-benefits fucking another young 25-something stud, etc. She was a constant reminder of every single MGTOW principle - marrying that woman would be an instant divorce-financial-rape in the making. She can't love - she can only exploit.

But I believe that was just her - not all women are like her.

MGTOW claims "All Women Are Like That (AWALT)" - but like all generalizations, this one too, is false. For one, most MGTOW guys had decent mothers - clearly, some decent mothers raised decent women, women worth marrying and sticking with. And it's also true that how *you* react in a relationship is just as important as the woman - you can't blame it all on her.

But can you manage to score such a life-partner, if you find one?

Myself, I failed :-) And since I can't "go monk", I enjoy the intimacy I experience with WGs. I think I am a different client than most - since I am not in a long term relationship, I behave like (and expect) a GFE with the providers I frequent. And my girls either really like this, or fake liking it really, really well :-) Maybe women have evolved to fake the happy girlfriend, I don't know :-)

Overall: go your own way, but don't hate women. We men "forged" our women the way they are, in many ways. Imagine being born one - that should help :-)

To answer Rodney's question in the first post, no. My hobby of mongering was inspired by a simple desire to have an old fashioned real good time; hooray for wine, women, song and Cialis!

Marriage and dating have always struck me as a good way to make one's life unduly complicated, so I avoid them. Doesn't bother me- I'm sort of reclusive by nature. More often than not, I crave solitude (except for when the sap runs high, then its off to pay the ho I go). For me, stability means just keeping it simple; none of this emanates from any dislike or distrust of women.

MGTOW or any "movement" related to it are just alien to my outlook and worldview (and seem a bit ridiculous and over the top to boot). Kind of reminds me of the "He-Man Woman Haters Club" in the old Our Gang comedy shorts.

With things opening up, I can't wait to get back to new content in standard Ignatz fare like trip reports, ripoff warnings, and finding out who among the ladies are worth visiting. Fingers crossed.

First I don't go around saying I'm MGTOW. I think its kinda childish. I just relate to the belief that one should thread carefully and possible avoid the marriage etc. I think life can be better for a lot of us lads.

MGTOW doesn't see all women as low life. I think anyone who does is an idiot. I think they believe its too difficult to separate the good from the bad especially given the longevity of marriage or relationships.

MGTOW I think is really a response to feminism which in many ways (not all) is very hostile to man.It is also a response to the unfair legal system that shafts men in divorce settlements.i see where they are coming from!

Swearing off women seems a little harsh.
Some of them are a lot of fun!

The most strident feminists are not doing anyone favors. Joining an equally strident group at the opposite pole of the issue is not going to help. Divorce is common, and divorce laws here are right out of the 1950's, so wishing for better times without doing anything to protect yourself will not assuage your fears.

You could consider Pre-nuptual agreements and Trusts.

They exist so that these issues can be agreed upon upfront.
Mercenary, yes. But useful.

Even if you are uncomfortable broaching the subject of a pre-nup, you can always place assets in a trust with very tightly defined rules on who has control, and how assets are used. I run a trust based on the assets of my Grandfather's farm. The trust benefits his children and grandchildren exclusively. Only they can be trustees. Spouses have no role, and divorces have no effect.
Two of my business have poison-pill provisions that force immediate liquidaiton of any partner involved in a divorce. DIvorce lawyers will use the leverage of disrupting the business to force unreasonable settlements. These clauses eliminate that kind of shenanigan.

While these kind of legal maneuvers won't make anyone feel better, they are useful protections.

I am not ready to move into a frat house and live the Bro-only life.
All I can imagine is a lot of cold pizza and warm beer, lounging in my underwear.
It would be fun for a while, but I know that I am far better off surrounded by women.


Weasel

No criticism intended, but it seems a little harsh to punish the partners twice (once by the spouse and once by the business). Divorce is definitely something to consider. My partnership has a clause that any shares transferred without unanimous consent of the partners convert to non-voting shares. Inherited or distributed shares have no influence on the operation of the business. They can continue to take profits or liquidate as they choose.

No offence taken.
It is strictly business.
Everyone involved knows the rules.
They are very simple. No matter what, you may not allow your personal life to fuck the business. Period.
It has been invoked only once in my career, and it worked as intended.
The divorce lawyers were not allowed to see our books.
They were not allowed to put leins on our assets.
They were not allowed to waste our time, with the exception of one very short and painful visit with our corporate law firm.
He ultimately retired, and he and his ex-wife sorted this out without us being involved or harmed.
I would like to say that it was unnecessary, but that isn't true. Divorce lawyers are ruthless, and these assholes would have done anything to strangle the business just to gain leverage and force an unfair settlement, fucking over not just the involved spouse, but his partners and their families as well. That was completely blocked.
He probably would have liked to work a few more years, but he is now happily retired in Florida.
Don't know what happend to the wife.

He is a great guy, and worked like a dog for decades.
I thought the whole deal was terribly unfair .
If as a family, you decide that one spouse will work as hard as they can to generate enough so that both may retire comfortably together, and the other spouse decides when the time comes that she would rather have the pool boy, how is that fair?
He was looking forward to traveling the world after retirement with his wife, growing old together, and basking in the glow of success. He did his part. Did she?

I think this confirms my concerns over longevity in relationships.You just don't know where u will stand with a partner 5,10 15 years down the line. This business partner was obviously with his wife a long time then later in life around retirement time the thing fell apart.

I think one needs to be extremely careful and plan for all possibilities. Weasel is correct u need to be kind of mercenary and ruthless these days to make sure your covered regarding these issues.

I still wouldn't do the marriage or a co habitat lifestyle. its actually not women I'm scared of! its the lawyers and the government. I have a good life and I'm sure I have myself set up to make it even better.


Anyway I'll be back in the Wallen in October! Another good reason to keep it single!

If I think about myself, my father and people I know, I've come to some conclusions regarding such beliefs. First, there are some really wonderful women out there. I see some of them who are married or in a committed relationship, and I'm truly happy for them and for their partners. I agree one should be careful what kind of commitment one makes, especially marriage. But if you're asking yourself such questions at a point where you're thinking about marrying someone, I think something has already gone wrong some time ago. Why would you even stay in a relationship with someone you can't trust? Knowing couples I've mentioned earlier, it's great to have them as friends. Because even in a friendship you can sense the implicit trust they share with people around them, and you can bet they have a genuine wellbeing of their partner rooted somewhere deep down in their core, and they have the confidence and trust that their partner is the same. This is the foundation of healthy relationships which I've come across only as I've grown older and found myself in different situations meeting different people.

While I might not be fortunate enough to have such people in my life while growing up, I'm grateful that I've met some of them later on. It gives you a new perspective on life, people and relationships. It also made me wonder what it would be like if I've never known such people? If I'd judge human relationships based on what was known to me in the past where good things are something on the surface, but you always have this feeling there's something else underneath there, something you can't trust 100%, I can see how beliefs such as MGTOW could become appealing with time. And my parents and grandparents weren't that bad, they tried their best for sure. But that deep intimacy was never quite there, and if it was, it came and went. Imagining if you're living in a place where everywhere you go these are the people you meet it's just natural that some men would accept such beliefs. It's risky to get close to someone you can't trust completely that they will accept you and love you.

But then you can play the thought experiment further and ask yourself if I were to found myself in a place where everyone was accepting and trustworthy, would they accept me? Would they want to get close to me? Even after a while? They probably wouldn't because I might have built a guard against the risk of getting close to someone which I perhaps couldn't put down voluntarily just because someone trustworthy came into my life. I know my father certainly couldn't, and I'm not saying he's MGTOW, but he'd probably agree with many of their beliefs. It turns out that in such a case blaming the other side is no longer applicable but the problem remains. Which means there's something that needs to be done with yourself. That, however, is hard to admit and harder still to execute. So then some would remain and put themselves in situations where they reaffirm their beliefs. This way there's at least something left you can blame for your problems. And thus begins the self-fulfilling prophecy unless you're able to be on a lookout for people and relationships that contradict your beliefs. What do you do then? I hope someone knows, as I surely don't.