Like I said in a previous post it is an exaggeration, but like you said you've been to detroit (and seeing as how that is all I know since i've lived here my whole life) it is extremely unsafe, and not just Detroit but alot of Michigan, not all but alot. Comparing it to a warzone, well how often do I hear of a school shooting in any state, or anything for that matter, my point ( sorry it's late and I'm sleepy) is I hear of so much crap happening in the states and not so much in Europe, so to me living anywhere in Europe is safer than here, but that's just my opinion I'm sure it's rough everywhere, but when it comes to my childs safety * I * feel that this is not the place to be.
~Erica

You are right that American values had been hijacked by the controlling party of the recent times to fit their agenda, and the true American values that stand for liberty and justice had gone to the wayside.

Liberty and justice are always what America stands for, but since when did the word “liberals” become a dirty word? The 60’s and 70’s were the last era that we tasted freedom. If you look back, Carter was the last president in that era. Everything changed after Reagan.

The War on Drug was started by Nancy Reagan who believed that it was a good cause for a first lady to do some public service to change the world. It sure did change the world, except for the worst instead of better. The entire country went downhill fast after that because everything in politic was orchestrated by the political engine since then.

We used to have liberal policies on drugs too when they cared less if you were tripping your brain out on LSD. Remember those times? Speed used to be legal and used by everyone, from the military fighter pilots to truck drivers to even medical doctors stay awake working in night shifts. Ecstasy used to be sold over the counter legally too, and Phil Donahue was the very person who triggered the publicity to ban the drug by his joke in his Phil Donahue Show that if we dumped the drug in the water supply of Washington DC, we would welcome Ayatollah Khomeini with open arms, which triggered the knee-jerk reaction to ban the drug instantly within 6 months of his joke from the face of the earth. It wasn’t that long ago – only 30 years ago in our recent memory.

Our neighborhood used to be safe too. We used to be able to walk into your neighbor’s house and borrow butter too. But not anymore.

To strike a balance, A’dam may not be as safe as it seems. I was attacked twice in a week just last month in A’dam 4 am while walking home from clubbing. I never had a problem walking that late at night because I always enjoy that quiet time walking home as if I have A’dam all for myself. It happened in a busy street too, 4 African black guys were approaching me, and I saw 2 shadows from behind, one on my left and the other on my right, so I knew what they were up to. They tried to knock me down, but missed! I wasn’t scared because I know it is safe in A’dam, just flagged down a cab in that busy street and got away.

The second time, I knew this Caribbean black guy was following me for blocks. I thought I had lost him because I wasn’t stupid. But he sneaked back behind me somehow. This time it was in a quiet neighborhood, and again I saw the shadow showing up behind me as I walked, and it was only 10 meters from the busy intersection, and he made his move. I knew he was coming, and I was anger this time because it pissed me off to have people like that in A’dam. He tried to grab me, but I pushed him back. He got scared, and said, "Don’t be scare" to me! and took off! He’s such a whim. I was angry, and it showed, and he knew it so he wouldn’t dare. The difference is that people are a bit less violent in Europe compared to the US, or at least they aren’t carrying a gun that can shoot you in the head.

Now, if it happened in the States, I would be a dead person, that’s the difference. I would not have survived being attacked twice in a week at 4 in the morning walking alone in the dark alley. It was only 4 weeks ago, and I wouldn't be lucky enough to walk away from those attacks if I were in any of the US cities. I usually carry a pepper-spray when I go out at night (although that’s no contest for a gun), but I can’t even bring one to A’dam because it is a weapon if you carry it on the plane, thanks to the Patriot Act, our freedom is lost forever.

Thomas Friedman, the sometimes brilliant sometimes stupid columnist for the New York Times, spent some time in Europe prior to Bush's recent trip . He interviewed people and asked, and I'm not sure if this was the exact wording but the central idea is the same, "what disappoints you most about Bush". He said that the most common response was that Bush had stolen their concept of America as a special place. What all of our hyperpatriots fail to realize is that our greatest strength as a country isn't our military. It's the ideals that this country was founded upon. Those ideals, freedom, equality of opportunity, the dignity of man have a universal appeal. I really don't want to sound like some jingoistic lunatic here but there is something unique about the US. The Netherlands, France, Germany, China, England...they all sort of just happened. The US was created during the Enlightenment by political philosophers like Jefferson and Thomas Paine. As it turned out, we never quite lived up to the ideals but the ideals were always there, always something for our society to strive for. Those ideals and the struggle to realize them have been an inspiration to people all over the world. To see those ideals trashed in a politically motived "kulturkampf" by people interested only in the allmighty dollar just makes you want to cry.

By the way, this thread illustrates what I just love about this forum. Where else can you engage in heartfelt discussions of political philosphy and marijuana all with the same group of people? Thanks to all of you.

You can take guns on planes. They just have to be checked baggage. http://www.tsa.gov

Let's not forget on Hitler's birthday why there still is the Netherlands.

Remember this: the USA was founded on a lie. The Declaration of Independance was written and signed by men who said that "all men are created equal", yet they accepted slavery and deemed only those wealthy enough to own property as having the right to vote. And they considered those who were already living on the land prior to the arrival of the Europeans as "savages" and felt it allright to cheat them and lie to them and take what they felt was rightfully theirs.

I know that morals change over the years, as do semantics, and today's African-American is yesterday's black and the day-before-yesterday's nigger, and you probably can't fault the founding fathers for their attitutes, given the standards of the day. But this country, the USA, has never been about the ideals that we espouse. It's all talk, and nothing more. We trump our democracy, but we've created a situation and an environment where only those who can raise tens of millions of dollars can run for national office. We used to criticize communism for not giving people a choice, yet within the communist party you had reformers and hard-liners. The same applies ehere. We have republicans and democrats who ipretend to give us a choice, but in actuality they belong to the same party. It's called the preserve the status quo party. The two sides talk different but they govern the same, and they have the same goals, which is to amass as much power as possible and the people be damned.

In the age of technology the most likeable candidate will usually win an election, all other things being equal. Te reason Bush won is because his opponents, while having a good message, had terrible messengers.

Sorry for the rant. I'm at work and I need an herbal fix.

A few years ago love, in a little country called Scotland, a town called Dunblain, there was a school shooting. Just as bad as the Flint one, or the Florida one, or the "I Don't Like Mondays one".

that, despite the fact it is quite hard to get a gun in Scotland. It happens everywhere. But it won't happen to you.

You are just being sold a scare story. Its how Governments contol people and the media gets ratings.

Learn to love your life, wherever you are, because life is just too short to worry about what might happen.

p.s. I used to walk around American cities like LA and Baltimore after dark and it was never worse than in Europe. Everyone told me I would die for sure. But never happened.

True, you can get lucky sometimes. A friend of mine was robbed at gunpoint, and you won’t believe what she did. She told the black guy, “Go ahead and pull the trigger. I don’t think you can afford the bullets!” And he let her go!!! She is a white chick, very pretty too. I guess she has guts. Of course, she’s very street smart. She taught me lots of street smart tricks, which is why I didn’t blink even when I was attacked by the low-lives. I guess fearless is the word.

Life is full of risk, you can get killed crossing the street too. I think the difference is having the choice to live in a community that is comfortable to you.

It does make a difference to live in a community that I can leave my garage door wide open when I forgot to shut it, and come back home with everything in the house intact. That is worry-free. I think my house would be completely emptied if it were only 3 miles down the road in my next door neighborhood.

So I can relate to the concerns that Thomas and Erica have in having a choice to choose a place that they feel comfortable, although life is no guarantee that bad things may not happen. It’s a peace of mind thing.

The ironic thing is that I don’t worry about getting robbed in my neighborhood, but it bugs me to hell that I got bothered by the damn cops when I walk in my neighborhood at night especially there are lots of nice parks and beaches that I like to enjoy and relax there, you become an automatic suspect in their eyes because you are guilty until proven innocent in this country. That’s why I feel so much of my freedom is taken away. I’d rather risk bothered by the street people in A’dam than the damn cops in my hometown. My town is safe not because of the cop protection, but because people are educated and respect others. Self-police is the best police.

I agree that the political system is very broken in the US and no one is willing to address the problem because it would mean changing the status quo, and someone is going to relinquish the power, and no one in power would want to do that.

The reason why the system is broken so bad is because no one is free to speak anymore because of the political correctness and the fear of retribution (political suicide) if you truly speak your mind. In reality, there is no free speech in this country.

But I do disagree that it’s a lie – maybe it’s semantics. I think there is an ideal but that is totally different from the practice.

I think people do believe in the ideals of liberty and justice when they don’t have power. But once they got power, things changed automatically. Some call it human nature of selfishness. I call it’s the lack of integrity to self-police.

Honestly, it isn’t Bush’s fault. He simply did what he was told.

Although the opponents may not had gotten their act together, which I agree, Bush won not because of that, but because of two things: (1) He did what he was told, so that made the orchestration of that political engine work so well in smooth sailing. (2) It’s that half of the American people who bought into the rhetoric of the political engine because they actually believed in what they hear without questioning.

The fault really lies in the American people who allowed someone to pull their heart strings. If you look at the polls of Europeans, most would not buy into that rhetoric because they can think for themselves, whereas one half of the Americans who voted were sold.

The problem came back to a full circle – which is the failure of our educational system. We haven’t taught our children to think for themselves as a free-thinker, and they believed everything they hear without questioning the validity. Our president is a classic example – he did what he was told and truly believed that god had given him the rights to run the world. It’s god’s calling to serve god in every way he can.

For most Americans, ghettos are nothing more than places we see on TV that are glorified in movie and song. We have all seen "Menace to Society'. However, in the future there will be ghettos in practically every community in America.

We used to think that young black men that simply do not give a fuck were the worst problem in America. The war on drugs, Clinton's crime bill, censorship of rap albums, Chris Rock's comedy. Prisons full of niggers. As a society we were determined to stomp out the niggers.

Then we had 9/11. Now it's all about the war on terror. Bin laden, Islamic Fundamentalists, Afghanistan, Iraq, Homeland security. Who are we going to attack next? Iran, Syria. Who cares? They probably deserve it. Nobody is talking about niggers anymore.

What is the next crisis du jour? Simple. It will be the Mexicans. Now most mexicans in this country are hard working people who are here to escape a life of poverty. However, most of them refuse to assimilate in to the american culture. They refuse to learn English, they litter, they drive without lnsurance, they are under the impression that we do have a national health care plan. They think every thing is free. All the while fucking like rabbits raising a whole generation of children who will grow up in poverty. By Mexican standards these children have everything they need. Food and shelter. However, as these Mexican American children grow up they will become disenchanted with thier lifestyle. Sure, some will slip through the cracks and go on to be productive members of society, The others will not be content to work for minimum wage and live 15 people in a 2 bedroom house. They will turn to crime, thus becoming the "New Niggers". These niggers wont live in Los Angeles or Detroit, they will live right next door to everybody.

One thing is for sure White America will not step aside, it will step up. Civil Rights be damned.

I for one am not afraid of speaking my mind in the US. I have been doing so ever since my first trip to A,dam a few years ago. This includes at work, etc.I do acknowledge that my circle of friends here are small as a result but i couldn,t care less

By speaking my mind, i do include talk of my visits to the RLD ladies and their counterparts here in Hawaii. I also show my outspokeness on this issue by bringing a lady i meet that way to company functions and parties where people would bring their wives or girlfriends.

The result of doing this is-i feel a lot better then i did being in denial. The stress level went way down, i can go on with life.

One thing though-the ladies i see in Waikiki, the nice looking ones-9,s, 10,s tell me it,s hard to
believe me saying ladie that good looking can get as low as 50 Euro. The going rate here for one
with the looks of Nina, Christina etc is $200-300 for the same amount time

For those of you who remember me from previous posts, i ,m still planning on moving to A,dam.
Just want to wait till the time is right so i don,t run into the situation like one of you said that it would be bad if everything is beckoning at me and i can,t afford it!

lovebite for president ! whos with me
thomas

Gee, thanks, Thomas. But I will pass on that. Public servant is a thankless job. I have no desire to accumulate power. All I want is a tropical island and a beach so that they can leave me alone, and, of course, a sweetheart to share it with. The rest is immaterial.

Well, frankly, I have done my share of citizenship to be involved in my community to make a difference, and have been one of my town’s board of commissioners. I see how things work in real politics – it only takes a few dedicated people to do most of the work.

I have seen how real democracy can work by citizen involvements if there is an open-system of genuine dialogs, provided that there is a vision for the bigger-whole that is not strictly self-serving. It can make a dent.

I have even seen people changed their stance from ruthless close-minded stubbornness to opening their resistance to embrace policy that will ensure a better future for their children once they see the real benefits of the vision for their future. So I have not given up hope for that yet.

But I don’t think it will change the world, nor do I want to do that. I prefer the world to evolve by itself because it gives autonomy, and that is the most important part of being human with individual identity rather than homogenizing everyone to our likings.

I have no problems for people thinking differently than I am, in fact, welcoming the differences because I don’t like hearing my own echoes – so long as there is a place for the liberals, and a place for the conservatives – then we can all live the way we all wanted without interfering with each other.

I have toyed with this idea with my friends to create our own country living in a cruise ship out in the international water where it is truly independent of any government, maybe build an artificial island with the oil-rigs floating in the ocean. They have university in a ship, so why not a country in a ship? Any takers?

country on a ship would be great ecept for servere weather and not enough area to move around. i love the outdoors and i love michigan for the landscape and endless inland lakes living without that would not make me happy. but getting away from the crazy money worshiping americans would be a dream.
thomas

You can fish from the ship... How about draining the ocean so we have more land to live on? :-)

we need a couple hundrend people to contribute their life savings to buy a small island. we would grow and raise our own food and not need much more. jumping subjects abit has eneyone been to the Dutch Antilles?

The idea would only work if everyone has the similar philosophy and value system of liberty to live in the same island. If people are insisting on the so-called American way, it wouldn’t be any different from where it is now. I mean it requires *major* attitude-readjustment, because most Americans are living with so many myths about liberty and justice. The true concept of liberty is just too foreign to most Americans. Here are some examples:

Nudity: This is basic human right. We are born naked and die naked, but not allowed to be naked in America except in your own bedroom. Not only will you get jailed for being naked, you will be chastised socially if you show your nudity. Unless this social value is changed, there is no personal freedom or liberty. Nudity is no big deal in Europe because nudity is viewed as natural without necessarily associated with the sexual connotation, but it is a major concern in the American way of life. Besides, nudity is the very essence of being in an island so no one would bother you. How many American can view nudity in a non-sexual way as natural and beauty like viewing Michelangelo’s anatomically correct nude male or female sculptures? Most Americans are very screwed up in mixing nudity with sex, creating an extremely unhealthy attitude toward sexuality. Most Americans don’t even know the big difference between sex and sexuality. If people have trouble with this, would I want to room with them on my island?

Curfews in raising kids: It is such an accepted norm in American society to put curfews on kids, but how many parents ever questioned this? How many think it is so anti-liberty? Most people live with the belief that (1) kids do not have the brain to behave themselves without rules, (2) kids have no rights, and (3) kids are the disposal of their parents. This is such a control-freak culture that it bewilders me to accept it as the “proper way” to raise a kid. If people don’t understand how horrible this is, think about the communities that have curfew laws put on minors on weekends that it is a crime for minors to be out in the public after midnight on Friday and the weekend. This is the equivalent of Marshall law for the kids! If you don’t know already, this is a military state that we live in, and it happens in American in your neighborhood, not just the most oppressive country in the world. No other countries in the world have Marshall laws like this, not even in Iraq or Cuba. The only other place where you will find “lock-down” is in a prison. It horrifies me to know that majority of parents in the US bring their kids up in virtual prison, and think that this is the “right way” to do so, and never questioned that this is such a violation of civil liberty. Well, guess what, kids don’t count as citizens to enjoy civil liberty.

Law-and-order: The biggest myth in the US is believing that liberty and justice are achieved by maintaining strict law and order. The fallacy in this belief system is that without law there would be chaos. The logic is if we put all people behind bars in prison, then there would be no crime. That would be complete law and order, no chaos, no violence, no one would break any laws and the society would be perfectly orderly. Sad to say, most Americans are brought up in this kind of virtual prisons. It is like animals growing up in captivity, they would not want to go outside of the cage even if the cage door is wide open because (1) they feel so much safer inside the cage and (2) they fear that it is a wild world out there if all animals are allowed to roam free, it would be total chaos and violent when there are no rules for animals to behave in the wild roaming freely. So it is this concept of police state that we live in, and believing that the only way to achieve freedom is by maintaining a tight reign over all behaviors of what is acceptable and what is not, otherwise it would be disorder and no one would feel safe without the police to maintain order, or strict laws that guarantee what behavior is appropriate or not. In other words, it is the belief system that liberty is achieved by controlling externally rather than derived from within that is so anti-liberty. The truth is no other country in the world has more rules and regulations than the US, not even Cuba or China. There is a law for every single behavior in the US because if there isn’t, people would not behave themselves and would end up in an argument if it is not in writing, or inscribed by the law. This is how warped the concept of liberty and justice most Americans believe.

Victimless crime: Crime only exists when there is a victim, but people accept the existence of laws for victimless crime like prostitution, drug use, curfews, banning gay marriage. Practically most of the laws in the book in the US are crimes without victims, but they are there to regulate and control behavior. The concept of legislating behavior is so prevalent in the American culture that victimless crimes exist for so long and endorsed by the society as morally right and acceptable and never challenge or question that they are so anti-liberty and anti-justice.

How many will share the same values if they want to share an island together?

I agree with most of what's been said but kids out after mdnight? come on! In the UK there's a huge problem with kids causing trouble at night. Do you really want a child of yours roaming the streets late at night.? I totally believe in freedom and love the Dutch attitude but what about the rights of the people terrorised by the little thugs who nowadays seem immune from the law?

Sign me up!! I will bring my ice skates and be the dentist.

i also agree with a cerfew as i was a teen not too long ago and the teens that were getting drunk all the time would go around vandelizing peoples houses for no reason. on the other hand those who smoked marijuana would sit in one place and laugh about nothing all night. im not saying smoking is alright for high school kids but its less harmfull than its legal counterpart.

A curfew is only good if the police are around to enforce it becauce there are too many deadbeat parents that let their kids run around as they please. the police in the city of detroit and probably most other major citys will not help.

thomas

That brought back to the very core of the balance between what we can live with and what we can live without. There is no perfect world, so in a real world it needs to strike a balance. The question is where is the balance?

The example of how we see kids as terrorists terrorizing the neighborhood is a good analogy, just the same way as how most of the western world solve the terrorist problem, i.e., we are willing to give up our own civil liberty and privacy to allow the government to invade into our everyday life to “protect” us from terrorism.

In my book, nothing is worth giving up liberty and freedom for, even terrorism. I’d rather risk getting hijacked on a plane than having my Big Brother search through me, because the very fact of searching you is assuming guilty (as a terrorist) until proven innocent.

The fact is crime exists whether there is law or not, whether there is tight control or not. It is a statistical nature. There are always some “good” people and some “bad” on earth, and the majority of people are neither good nor bad. To eliminate crime is absurd because it is like eliminating human behavior. It is no different from trying to eliminate traffic accident. As long as there are people driving cars, there will be accident. It is crazy to think we can eliminate accident. By the same token, it is insane to believe that we can eliminate crime. So is terrorism, it always exists and it always will. To give up civil liberty to fight terrorism is like saying giving up driving to fight accident!

So I don’t believe curfew did a damn thing to curb teenage vandalism or “misbehavior.” I never had curfews imposed on me in my life by my parents nor my community, and none of my peers of the time had any of the annoyance problems that exist in today’s world. It worked without curfews or strict rules. It worked with the understanding of human behavior.

Teenage vandalism is an age phenomenon. It disappears automatically when the kids turn 21. Ask any cop, and they will testify to that fact.

It is a development stage – the rite of passage to adulthood – to exert independence and autonomy from the dependent stage of childhood. It is their way of stretching their wings for the first time. Most often, that first flight is very clumsy that often results in all these so-called annoyances to the rest of us.

The degree of teenage rebellion is directly proportional to the degree of tight-control on their life. To say that teenagers should not be rebellious is like saying that they should not reach adulthood. It is a developmental stage that if it is skipped (for those who are brought up in the “prime and proper” family), it will always creep back up on you even at the age of 40 – ever wonder why there are some people who are so difficult to deal with at 40 whose behavior is no different from a 15 yr old? They are the very person who were the “perfect kid” as a teen.

As Thomas said, that rebellious behavior can be channeled into benign behavior like smoking pot rather than violence. It’s all in our attitude. It is the classic “self-fulfilling prophecy” in psychology – if you see it evil, it will become evil; if you see it positive, it will be positive. Ever wonder why Bush sees all those evil in Muslims and become an evil himself?

If you don’t already know, the Islam had already succeeded in their objective to take away our freedom in the western world without needing any further terrorist act. Ask yourself the question, is the world around you more free or less free after 9/11?

The enemy is us – whenever we point our fingers at others, three fingers are pointing back at us!

So are the teenagers really the evil, or are we the evil of control freaks?