this is thomas i have not been involed with this forum very much but as i read the posts lovebite gave great information and bought tears of joy to my eyes and only comfirmed how much i love nl. thanx lovebite any more info would be great too.

Thomas and Erica, I appreciate your appreciation. I don’t claim to be an expert in NL, most of it is from my personal experience interacting with the natives there. Here are some of my personal views.

One thing I appreciate the most in NL is the authenticity of people. They are very down to earth. What you see is what you get. They speak their mind, without pretense or filter or sugar coat things for you. It’s very similar to what you find in the upper Midwest like in Minnesota or Wisconsin, which is no surprise because most of the Dutch and Scandinavians emigrated there because of the similar climate and landscape, who also brought their culture with. It is that community spirit that I missed the most since I moved away from the Midwest and found that in NL. There are lots of similarities between them, like the work ethics, the farm country atmosphere, the down-to-earth hometown feel, friendliness, openness, the curiosity to learn about others, the non-judgmental way of sharing differences in people. That’s why I found the affiliation with them so much more at home.

The openness is something that I found very refreshing there, especially when I’m living in a very close-minded community here in the States. They are very open about practically anything, so I can talk about anything any topics with them and found something common to share. In other words, they are very intellectually stimulating who aren’t just so concerned about all the worldly things that occupied most people’s mind in the States.

Most of them are very friendly and welcoming to others rather than closing to themselves or excluding others. I guess it has more to do with personality than anything else because I found there are more extroverts than introverts.

If I have kids, I would want them to know everything without sheltering them from what they should or should not know, because I want them to learn for themselves, to be exposed to the world as it is, and judge for themselves instead of keeping things from them. The NL system allows that to happen because of its openness, but not in the US when there are so many things barred from children that created this disconnect between childhood and adulthood.

That’s why if I have kids, I would raise them up in NL than anywhere else because I like the openness, authenticity, and the strong sense of self-determination that they teach in their culture. The outcome of that system is that they know what they want when they grow up – that sense of self-determination is so prevalent that you know they will take on any challenge in life without you having to worry about them one single bit. That sense of confidence is not arrogant, but a sense of pride of who they are and what they can accomplish that would make you a proud parent. That sense of self-confidence in themselves, especially in girls that you don’t find the same in other places because they learn that girls don’t often take craps from boys at a very early age from the cultural perspective. Comparing the two cultures, I found that girls learn to be much stronger/assertive person as independent thinkers than you find in the US – you would not take them for granted.

These are my perspectives from my observations. I hope this helps you to get a bit more informed view of the differences in the culture as far as assimilating into the system and comparing the pros and cons between the two cultures are concerned even though it is a personal view, and by no means generalizing it to others.

Amen!!!

Gee, thanks Lovebite! You make me look at my countrymen and myself in a new light.. :-)

You have a point though, dutch children are brought up to become independent thinkers.
There's also a downside: everybody in this country has got an opinion on everything, even if they don't know squat about the subject, and they're happy to let all the world know what they think.

The so called "dutch uncle" didn't come out of the blue...

I suppose I’m a dreamer living in fantasyland. Did I really worship your country? :)

There is one unique custom about Dutch that I have not figured out yet. Why do Dutch people refuse accepting tip? Could you enlighten me on this?

I would understand going dutch on a date is equality and fair to pay your own way. I also know Dutch’s hard working ethics to make your own money and earn your own way – that I understand. But refusing money when someone gives you tip, that is hard to comprehend!

Sorry for the late reaction, Lovebite, but can you be a bit more specific?
I know for sure that waiters in bars and restaurants are quite happy if you tip them. Their official wages are usually lower than average, and tip-money is a welcome addition.
Other than in such places it is uncommon for the dutch to pay tips.

K.

Well, for instance, if after a good session and you tipped the lady, they seemed so surprised, and sometimes refused the extra money. This is especially when they gave you extra time, and you want to be fair and give them something extra, they were dumbfound. I’m not sure if it is because they think you are bribing them or something, or that they think you expect something more and feel obligated. Or maybe not too many customers go out of their way to do that, and tipping is an uncommon practice for the stingy customers. They are usually the down-to-earth girls who work hard for the money. I often tip them with a little something special, a gift that they may like. (Of course, I’m not talking about the rip-offs here.) Maybe I’m just lucky to have encountered the most honest girls around...

I'd say it's because they're not used to getting tipped, since tipping is not very common 'round here.

Thanks for the explanation. There aren't too many places in the world that people aren’t starving for the little extra money.

It is actually rather refreshing to know that people can relax and enjoy life – that having money is nice, but it isn't everything.

I guess I lived in the materialistic US for too long to see everyone walking around with the dollar signs spelled everywhere.

I suppose it is only in America that people really thinks “whoever dies with the most toys wins.” It’s a bit upside down to me...

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're being a bit overzealous in your enthusiasm.
The dutch tend to become more and more materialistic over the past few years. The current government isn't proclaiming the revival of moral standards and family values for nothing.
Altruism is becoming a rare quality these days. It's always me, myself and I.