After a handful of visits to Amsterdam at varying times of year we think that holland and especially amsterdam is just the kind of place we would love to live, if only for a few years, because of the seemingly more laid back attitude, yet efficiency of the place, and so have been idly checking out the job situation over there, and well, it seems to hold better technical opportunities than this damp little corner of britain.

So, Okay, i realise that this isnt the typical posting on here ;)

But my question is, whats the cost of living really like ?
i mean when you get away from the obviously inflated-for-the-tourists stuff, how do tax rates and house prices compare ?

i've just got back from the dam looking at property ..can get a nice 2 bedroom flat to buy for around 165000 euro..around 120,000 uk pounds..thats in the jordan area..nice area just outside of the centre..if you cook at home and shop at supermarkets its the same as the uk..if you wanna go out and party its more or less london prices...i think the best way to go is buy a place not rent..as rental is around 600-750 uk pounds per month..my plan is to buy a place ..work in england..and rent it out when i'm not there.

first, there's more to life in the Netherlands than Amsterdam, though housing prices tend to be high throughout the Randstad (Utrecht, Amsterdam, Den Haag, Rotterdam and in between) due to one of the highest population densities on earth. you can certainly live cheaper in places that aren't Amsterdam, but offer you many of the same activities.

tax rates will tend to be higher than in the UK in my experience (I lived in Holland, paid Dutch tax; live in the UK now).

oh, and it's damp in Holland, too -- heck, a lot of it's well below sea level ;)

-paniked

DELETED

Here's the (simplified) deal on dutch taxes.

Based on your year's income, you pay:
34.40% over the first € 16,893
41.95% over the amount between € 16,894 and € 30,357
42.00% over the amount between € 30,358 and € 51,762
52.00% over the amount over € 51,763

Still interested in moving here?

K.

I may be the only exception who don’t complain about taxes, and willing to pay tax as a citizen to pay my share so long as the government is fair about re-distributing the wealth and each citizen gets to ripe the benefits, such as health-care benefits, pension benefits, education benefits, public transportation benefits, unemployment benefits, etc. etc.

I think the difference in the US tax system is that you pay into the system but get none of the benefits out – no health-care, no public transportation, no nothing, except all your money goes into building the military, foreign aids to Israel, Egypt and Iraq war, instead of paying back domestically to the taxpayers, which I believe is an abuse of the tax-dollars. And, there is a huge misuse of taxpayer’s money by the government because of its bureaucracy and inefficiency, and the lie that politicians made about smaller government when it created more. The Iraq war is costing $9 billion of taxpayer’s money a month – that is $300 million a day, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

In fact, there is tax everywhere in the US – federal tax, state tax, local property tax, sales tax, and highway-robbery tax called toll, but because they nickel and dime you, people don’t pay too much attention to it but it does add up.

I’d rather live in a country who is honest about their tax money, and give something back to you.

Well said Lovebite!

The tax rates in holland are seriously high

I really hate political rants on this board...but I will claim a right to equal time...

When all the posturing is over...and all the WMD misdirection passes...what really happened will be clear. The US helped the Iraqi people by eliminating the psychopathic homicidal dictator in their midst responsible for the death of over 1 million...and the suffering of many times more.

In polls the Iraqi people *agree* that the US did the right thing in taking out Saddam via invasion.
I'm sure the dead would agree if only they were around to be asked...

stop and think about what you just said: "I am about to pollute the board by personally perpetuating the very thing which I despise. and I assert the right to do so."

...just as leaders who profess to "hate war" lead us to it time and again. I'm sure such sophisticated irony was wholly unintentional though...


8 May 2005, Maastricht

think about it.
-paniked

Believe me I've thought about it.

There are two conflicting goods here. One is the purity and sanity of this board. The other is not letting stand statements which espouse something like "my tax dollars are more important than the lives of a million dead victims".

In this case I think the latter is more important than the former. But implicit in my post is also the message that "I won't make posts like this if you won't".

In game-theory this is called the "tit for tat" strategy for the iterated prisoner's dilemma. It's been shown to be a very effective strategy. Except, of course, in the Middle East.

(all irony here definitely intended. Including the irony of your entering the argument which you would ban by posting an editorializing picture.)

really? who suggested that? the fantasy that moderators on this board live to censor the free speech of the readership, or tread on their so-called "rights" is totally absurd. for one thing, this is a message board on the internet, not a constitutional democracy. and if we were going to engage in outright censorship, we would have. naturally we reserve the right to excercise editorial license on selective basis.

and we're familiar with "tit for tat" (or "hawks and doves and bullies") but this is a board for adults, not a school playground. so we would respectfully ask that you keep your word and not post more polictical rants (or respond to those who would).

-paniked

First of all game theory is not just for the school yard. It applies to all human interaction. It is solid and respected mathematics.

Second, I hope you will play fair with your intervention when it comes to political rants. i.e. please discourage all political posts not just the responses you personally don't agree with.

Shutting up now...

neurosynth

A little research reveals the following:

Both resident and non-resident individuals who receive income from NL are liable for Income Tax. Residents are taxed on their entire income (regardless of origin), non-residents only the income directly connected with NL territory.

Income Tax takes into account the source of income and distinguishes three categories (or 'boxes') taxed at different rates.

Liability is reduced by personal tax deductions.

Box 1 - taxable income from work and dwellings
Box 2 - taxable income from substantial interest
(either alone or with partner holds, directly or indirectly, at least 5% of a company's shares)
Box 3 - taxable income from savings and investments

Personal tax deductions comprise costs that affect the 'financial capacity' of the taxpayer. e.g child/partner maintenance payments, study expenses, exceptionals (e.g. on account of illness).

Deductions apply first to 'Box 1', any balance not offset to 'Box 3', then 'Box 2'. Any unused allowance can be rolled forward to subsequent tax years.

Box 1 rates: (as at 2005)
34.4% on first 16,894 EUR
(comprises 1.8% tax, 32.6% social security)
41.95% on the next 13,464 EUR
(comprises 9.35% tax, 32.6% social security)
42% on the next 21,405 EUR (solely tax)
52% on the excess (solely tax)

Taxpayers aged 65 or older are taxed at 16.5% in the first bracket and 24.05% in the second (no longer required to pay pension ('AOW') contributions.

'Social Security' comprises old-age pension (AOW), surviving relatives benefit (Anw), exceptional medical expenses (AWBZ) and child benefit (AWR). Child benefit takes no contribution.

Tax due from resident taxpayers is reduced by the amount of the 'levy rebate' The 'general' rebate applies to -all- resident taxpayers and comprises a tax element and a social security element. In addition, there exists all kinds of supplementary rebates that account for the amount of income earned and taxpayer personal circumstance. Rebates for the employed, parents, single parents and the elderly with a small income contribute towards an equitable distribution of the tax burden.

The tax levied on savings and investments (Box 3 income) is based on the assumption of a 4% annual yield on net assets, -irrespective- of the actual yield (interest, dividend, capital gains). Net assets (fair market value after deduction of fair market value of debts) are valued at the average for the calendar year and are noted on two reference dates, 1 January and 31 December.

Owner-occupied dwellings are covered by Box 1.
Interest on owner-occupied mortgage debt is deductable (UK people may remember a thing called MIRAS here in the UK).

Second-homes or a let property are covered by Box 3.
The first 2,700 EUR of other debts may -not- be deducted from Box 3.

Box 3 may -not- be negative. But taxpayers are entitled to a tax-free threshold of 19,522 EUR as tax-exempt capital. This threshold is raised by 2,607 EUR for each child under 18 of whom the taxpayer has custody on 31 December.

Depending on their income and wealth, taxpayers aged 65 and over are entitled to an additional allowance, upto a maximum 25,842 EUR.

Although payroll operates similar to PAYE in the UK (witholding) tax returns need to be filed with the authorities by April 1 (April Fool.? I kid you not!). Employers supply the necessary paperwork to enable this.

NL has double-taxation treaties in place with the EEA and others.

Other Taxes That May Affect You

Dividend Witholding Tax
25% (so shareholders receive 75% of the divi)
May be offset against income tax payable.
Exemptions exist, too complicated to go into here.

Inheritance Tax, Gift Tax and Transfer Tax [real estate]

Tax on 'games of chance' (prizes more than 454 EUR)

VAT - 'BTW' (consumption tax):-
19% (standard rate)
6% (reduced rate - food, medicines, books, magazines, passenger transport, entertainment entrance fees, e.g. zoos and theatres, water)
0% (zero rate - goods leave NL free of VAT)

Excise Duty (alcohol, tobacco, mineral oils [fuels])
e.g. 0.67 eurocents / litre petrol

Insurance Tax - 7% of premium

Vehicle Registration Tax ('BPM')
- cars/bikes over 25 years old exempt
- reductions based on age of used vehicles
- max reduction 90%

Motor Vehicle Tax

Tax on Tap Water
- collected by water company on behalf of authorities
- 0.146 eurocents / m^3

Energy Tax (consumption of fuels e.g. gas)
- cents/m^3

The 'Ministry of Finance' in NL would be a source of further info.
www.minfin.nl/en

With respect to owner-occupied properties, I seem to recall reading that your Box 1 taxable income is raised by an amount equal to the 'fair market rent', and -tenants- do not pay property taxes, but I cannot find the link/document, so this would need further investigation.

Hope this is of use!

lovebite must have been absolutely furious that Bush, at the behest of Bill Frist, gave 15 billion dollars to Africa to fight AIDS, saving hundreds of thousands of lives. After all, lovebite got nothing out of that money!

Uncalled for and crude, mrab. Go bitch elsewhere.

Excuse me? By virtue of his own arguments, Lovebite MUST condemn the $15 billion in aid to Africa, if he is at all intellectually honest. It's simply his own logic being used against him. He can't have it both ways. Maybe he will reconsider his opinions; and maybe he won't. Either way, I would like to apologize for my crude and ugly repartee.

You're assumption is unjust, primarily because lovebite made no such assertion. He said he didn't have a problem withe taxes so long as they are used appropriately -- I doubt that aid would be considered as a wasted expenditure. Your false assertion, and the sniping tone, is what I took exception to.

I agree with lovebite - I would not want my taxes funneled to fuel wars for oil. I would rather see it returned to the country and its people in better health care and social services, infrastructure and the like, and of course, support to other nations who need it. That is taxes applied to the welfare of all, and we all can only benefit from those actions.

"War for oil"...just because propaganda slogans are repeated over and over again they don't become true. This one is just nonsense. Exactly how is the US stealing oil anyway? Backing up tankers in the dark of night and wisking it away unpaid for?

Let's get back to reality.

Under the wonderful "oil for food" program Saddam was able to steal the natural wealth of Iraq (oil income) and starve his own people....with payoffs, of course, going to corrupt European business men and politicians. A democratic Iraq will lead to Iraq's oil being sold fairly on the open market in a way that benefits the general populace.

Neurosynth - it is a war for oil; the entire world knows it.

You can talk all you want about the real motivation being the toppling of Saddam but in reality there was no need for the US to destabilize the government there other than to occupy one of the largest oil supplies in world. Saddam was no threat - all the "faulty" intelligence aside, he proved no threat whatsoever for how long? A decade? More?

Seriously - and after the Downing Street paper, there is no question that this was part of the game plan far before 9/11. To use those tragic deaths as an excuse to invade Iraq is criminal in my eyes. As an American myself, I'm beyond disgusted at my countries actions - I remember watching the storming of homes at the beginning and thought, who are these people? These are the actions of gestapo, not American troops. Could you imagine American troops acting that way in WW2? No - the Germans *were* better soldiers, but we were supposed to be better people than that, and we wouldn't use the methods of the enemy. America seems to have changed it mind.

Don't preach to me, especially when it comes to the lies of the State. This is not the America I was born in, the America I loved and defended, the ideal of America I celebrate.

Who are these people?