EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-26, 4:05 pm
block
Posts: 458
Location: Texas 2
|
|
Can someone explain what the results of a "no" vote on the EU Constitution would be? Depending on who you listen to there will either be gloom and doom or it will be the greatest thing ever for The Netherlands.I do not mean to start a political debate on this board but I would like to be enlightened to what all the EU Constitution talk means.
_________________ "I sure learned a lot from Bill Evans"
Miles Davis
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-26, 5:52 pm
vicgoo
Posts: 359
Location: Boca Raton, florida
|
|
Here,s some info
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2950276.stm
_________________ victor
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-26, 6:06 pm
Gussy
Posts: 24
|
|
Damned if I know. I might log on to the EU Commission's website though and ask them who the best escort they slept with is ?
|
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-26, 8:04 pm
lovebite
Supporting Member
Posts: 122
Location: Cloud 9, Lovers Ln, Paradise City, Planet Heaven
|
|
The proposed EU Constitution has to be ratified by all 25 member nations. A “yes” vote means the member state will accept the terms of the Constitution as is. A “no” vote by the member nation means the EU Constitution will be rejected and goes back to the drawing board and re-draft the Constitution again.
By design, EU is based on existing treaties, only to consolidate them all together. By nature, EU expects the member nations to give up some national rights to gain security and harmony (joint decision) for the bigger whole, therefore the EU Constitution will allow trumping the national laws with a qualified majority vote in certain legal areas. I guess this is what they called “democracy” – majority rules!
So what this could mean is that the liberal drug and prostitution policy could be trumped by the qualified majority vote if they affect international trade so as to conform to a common policy, unless NL can convince the other member nations to gain a majority to go along with the policy.
If you go to http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm and download the FAQ pdf file, it will explain how to interpret the proposed Constitution. #4 will answer the question of how EU can overrule member-nation’s own laws. #20 and #21 will answer the question of what if the Constitution is not ratified. #22 answers how the EU Constitution can be amended.
BTW, Switzerland is doing fine without joining the EU. Switzerland has always been a neutral and independent country, and so can NL. There is provision to cede from EU, but they have to agree to the terms imposed by the EU when they leave. So there are strings attached.
_________________ dreambite and realitybite...
|
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-27, 4:30 am
Texan
Posts: 91
Location: San Antonio, Texas USA
|
|
I suspect that one immediate effect a "no" vote by any of the major EU countries would be a devaluation of the Euro vs. the dollar. That would at least be a temporary reprieve for those of us here in the US that enjoy trips to Holland or other EU nations. I also suspect that the current polling showing "no" votes in France and Holland is a major cause of the falling Euro at this point.
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-27, 11:15 am
DELETED
Posts:
|
|
DELETED
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-27, 2:33 pm
gezellig
Posts: 251
|
|
I have to disagree with Lovebite I'm afraid.
My understanding is a "no" vote in any referendum by a member country would mean that they would continue with the existing constitution, whereas a "yes" vote would mean that they would have an input into the formulation of the revised one. A revision being necessary since the EEC->EC->EU has grown to 25 countries, with more knocking the door to come in.
Personally I'd rather Britain be a part of it so that it has some say in trade laws et cetera directly affecting it rather than say Iceland, who are outside of it but still bound by certain rules.
Consequences of a French 'Non' [taken from BBC Website]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4552937.stm
Regards
G~
|
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-27, 8:13 pm
lovebite
Supporting Member
Posts: 122
Location: Cloud 9, Lovers Ln, Paradise City, Planet Heaven
|
|
Well, actually the EU is working out perfectly fine without the Constitution. If it ain’t broken, why fix it! So a “no” vote to the Constitution would have no affect to the current status of what it is whatsoever. EU will exist as a treaty, and that’s what it should be – a treaty, and let all nations maintain their sovereignty and laws without infringing on each other.
What the EU Constitution created is a stateless state, more government and control. That’s all. I don’t think Europe needs another government on top of their own governments. A constitution, by nature, creates governance and regulations. Treaties work just fine, why need more buracracy?
I think the problem lies in the common misconception of the spirit of a “constitution” should be by politicians. Ideally, a constitution should “grant” rights to its citizens and member states rather than “restricting or denying” rights to them. The only thing it should limit is the excessive power and abuse of the government. That is in theory.
But in reality, it’s the opposite. It gives government more power and limits the rights of citizens and member states. That’s the irony!
If you look at the US Constitution as an example, all its amendments are granting rights to citizens and limiting the excessive power of the government, with one exception – the Prohibition Amendment XVIII in 1919 that banned liquor use, which was then repealed by Amendment XXI in 1933. Now, another movement is to amend the constitution to ban same sex marriage, another example of how government abuse their power to deny rights rather than granting rights.
Although the EU Constitution spells out most of the rights granted to its citizens, http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/ptoc16_en.htm it falls short of granting the most “inalienable right to pursue happiness.” Without that drugs and prostitution can be banned by its constitution.
(BTW, the terms and conditions to withdraw from the Union is spelled out in http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/ptoc13_en.htm It’s not entirely free to leave without conditions agreed on by the majority.)
_________________ dreambite and realitybite...
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-28, 12:05 pm
DELETED
Posts:
|
|
DELETED
Last edited by DELETED on 2005-05-28, 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-28, 2:33 pm
DELETED
Posts:
|
|
DELETED
|
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-28, 9:53 pm
axxxtw
Founder
Posts: 910
|
|
Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds ;-)
In fact we welcome, and always have, all discussion pertaining to city & country.
But sometimes certain discussions bring out the nasty beast in those who are prone to that disease, and that's the only reason we ever remove a post, or occasionally, a user.
Anyone who lives here understands that along with personal freedom, comes personal responsibility. Certain types of visitors have the mistaken impression that everything is permissible...it ain't. Same here.
_________________ wash your hands.
Last edited by axxxtw on 2005-05-28, 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-28, 10:04 pm
oidar
Posts: 61
Location: Charlotte NC
|
|
There is an urge and rage in people to destroy, to kill, to murder, and until all mankind, without exception, undergoes a great change, wars will be waged, everything that has been built up, cultivated and grown, will be destroyed and disfigured, after which mankind will have to begin all over again. - Anne Frank
Any guesses where I got this book?
|
|
|
|
Re: EU Constitution question
Posted: 2005-05-30, 1:51 pm
axxxtw
Founder
Posts: 910
|
|
we do what we like, it usually coincides with "fair". if not everything seems fair, that's life. take it on the chin, smile, or not, and move on. whining is unattractive.
if you have a problem, and it seems you do, please feel welcome to "vote" by going elsewhere.
_________________ wash your hands.
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Amsterdam XXX | The Walletjes © 1996-2014 Ignatzmice Studios All rights reserved :: All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]
Use of this site indicates your consent to our Terms of Use :: Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
|